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[Music]

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[Applause]

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this hope radio for the masses headline

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of it in July 8 1947 the Army Air Forces

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has announced that a flying this has

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been found and is now in the possession

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of the army the game is rigged

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change the game changer I occasionally

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think how quickly our differences

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worldwide would vanish if we were facing

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this is fade to black with your host

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Jimmy Church on a game changer radio

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network and kgr a the Global Radio

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I need your help to get to the year 1985

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[Music]

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you are listening to fade to black with

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Jimmy judge or the game change in that

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word

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good evening how you doing

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are you doing fade to black this spoke

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today is Monday July 29 2009 a two

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hundred and nine days into the new year

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just 156 days left we're live from a

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bunker somewhere in the middle of it

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beautiful downtown Burbank California

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and I would like to welcome everybody

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listening all around the world all

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across the United States hither and

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thither to and fro back and forth up and

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down east and west north and south far

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and near

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this is fade to black for KJ Sierra the

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game changer network and Katy are a the

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planet I am your host Jimmy Church what

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is cracking everybody kicking off a

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brand new week here on fade to black and

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tonight Don Schmidt Don Schmidt

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tonight we're gonna be talking about his

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new book just released a paperback by

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the way you oppose secrets inside

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wright-patterson eyewitness accounts

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from the real area 51

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all right welcome back fade to black I'm

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your Jimmy church tonight Don Schmidt is

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here tomorrow night

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John Greenwald the black vault

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Wednesday night Kimberly Meredith

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joining us for the first time gonna be a

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great conversation you don't want to

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miss that

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Thursday is another Fator night with

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open lines all night long but tonight

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it's dawn Schmidt I love it when he

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stops by Don is the former co-director

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of the J Allen Hynek Center for UFO

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studies in Chicago where he served as

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director of Special Investigations for

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ten years prior to that time he was a

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special investigator for the late dr. J

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Allen Hynek and the art director for the

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International UFO reporter he graduated

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from MATC with a degree in commercial

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art and graduated laude from

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Concordia University with a degree in

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liberal or liberal arts he's currently

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taking graduate courses in criminal

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justice and that's not true

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I don't believe that well I'm gonna ask

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him in just a second he and his

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co-author and partner Tom Cary of 18

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years have already outlined their next

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writing collaboration and it will be on

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the UFO incident and also tonight we are

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going to discuss is newly released in

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paperback UFO secrets inside

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wright-patterson the real area 51

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witnesses are talking in this book it is

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a very very good reading get it over on

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Amazon in the links write to me Church

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radio.com I'd like to welcome back to

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fade to black

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Don Schmitt Don good evening how are you

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man am i back Jimmy yes I'm back good to

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be back yeah it's always good to hear

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your voice

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you know and I was saying earlier today

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I said you know Don I like Don and the

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reason you know you know why Don I like

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you so much you are honest I don't know

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if I could add you know you're honest

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you're a positive ray of light you're

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honest and you have been doing this for

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such a long time you've influenced me

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I've been reading your stuff for so many

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years we become friends over the years

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now

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which is it's my honor to even say that

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but Don you're just a guy trying to

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figure this mess out and you have been

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doing it for such a long time and I want

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to thank you on behalf of this community

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and and everyone else out there just

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thank you so much for everything was

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very interpreted I'm very flattered and

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I I want to finish it

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I mean why prolong this agony the point

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being that you know for those of us who

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really you know at times feel that we

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may be on you know on the edge

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we're finally you on the brink that the

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scroller or the breakthrough or the

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evidence is finally going to be there if

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some of us get a little overly

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passionate and anxious it's mainly

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because we want to just get the damn

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thing done once and for all how does it

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mean for those of us that have spent

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almost a lifetime mad at my god I would

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never get Walter Andrus who was the

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founder the director of MUFON years ago

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and when I was working with Kevin

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Randall at that time and they wouldn't

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give us the time of day was like Kevin

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and I couldn't do anything right

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regarde know our research so I finally

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confronted Walton I I asked him I said

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what's the problem and he said well done

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if you guys solve this you put us out of

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business

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did he really or is it yes the point is

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I've been trying to put us all out of

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business for years because let's finally

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solve this damn mystery and you know get

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on with the fact that you know we know

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it's happening we know it's true we know

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we're being visited we know we're not

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alone and and then we'll have our ticker

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tape parade you know finally you know

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that we we saw this altima mystery the

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biggest story of the millennium and then

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we can get back to our lives of normalcy

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and families and now you wouldn't have

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anything to do now what

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I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions

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out of the gate here before before we

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get to the book that I've never asked

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you before okay all right go ahead

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please have you ever seen a UFO Don no I

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have seen just as much as most anyone to

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kill your light something that for a

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moment may have looked a little out of

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the ordinary but know that I could

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honestly that I would have even told

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anybody else about it

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No so you madly no yeah he ever been

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abducted that you know of

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I've had people suggest that I have been

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and I've had just as many people suggest

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that I should and it would be one way

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but no no okay last lash back no

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memories of anything of that sort

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okay one last question if you're up it

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you're in that you live in the Midwest

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and so you're up you're you're cooking

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you're in the backyard

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nice nice summer night and and it

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happened the craft lands in the backyard

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dude steps off and says where's Don and

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you're there with your apron and your

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spatula flipping burgers and you're like

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I'm done I said okay come on do you go

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do you go

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no no why not no why because you know

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the fear of the unknown is such that

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there are there are no guarantees there

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are no guarantees that Daniel is elusive

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phantom that we've been chasing all

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these years and all of a sudden it

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becomes you know a Twilight Zone to

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serve mankind type of situation I don't

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know it's enough that we are you know

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forced to you know place our our trust

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and our very well being in the hands of

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supposedly more educated you know

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politicians who only mean us well oh yes

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and then that we should trust even a

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high

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intelligence oh yes it would certainly

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be the ultimate adventure but I think

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just the confrontation would be enough

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plus just the realization I know it's a

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question Jimmy that you know he probably

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goes back to the very beginning would

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you get on board would you actually you

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know you know step on for that you know

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that ride of a lifetime

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and honestly I even think back to when

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Hynek was even asked that well I was

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gonna I was gonna bring it up down

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because of Hynek and this is we all have

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our our memories and our emotional ties

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to Act three of Close Encounters Close

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and Krait the craft is there and and and

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Hynek you know it's got his you know his

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walk on but the moment when seven

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seconds seven seconds and everybody is

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coming off of the crack they're

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returning back you know to earth and all

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of this had that thought that that must

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have been pretty cool what did they see

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what did they encounter what what are

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they going to talk about now of course

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that never you know materialized for

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Close Encounters part two which they

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should have done but didn't you have

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that same kind of emotional thought when

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the abductees were returning at that

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moment you could possibly be one of them

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right I mean wouldn't you do it

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IIIi was more concerned for the fact

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that Spielberg ambling they liberally

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use you know the file as a cue post at

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that time and there were specific scenes

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throughout the movie that were based on

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actual reports so in many ways we were

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looking up or dr. Hynek in that he was

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portrayed in such a way that was with

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dignity respect and there were political

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things there were legal things that were

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going on at the time with his publisher

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there was withheld royalties and in all

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frankness Spielberg did not treat dr.

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Hynek as well as he should have

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financially hmm and I think because we

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were more caught up in that at the time

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it it probably spoiled you know that

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that elements that impression that I

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should have had and then if I take it

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even a little bit further it was right

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after Allen dr. Hynek they had filmed

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the devils tower that very scene mm-hmm

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and we had a party we were we had a

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dinner party at the Hynek residence in

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Evanston you know you know Illinois and

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I never forget being with Allen in the

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kitchen and I said to him well I suppose

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that Close Encounters is is now your

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favorite UFO movie to which you

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responded no Don I still agree with you

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it's still the day of the Earth Stood

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Still to this day I watch the day that

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the Earth Stood Still and I think to

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myself that's exactly how it would go

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down

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you know the army shoot for yes crazy

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stupid you know trigger-happy that

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mentality there was you know the the et

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on the one you know feared for his life

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and you know there's things about it

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that I thought were very very accurate

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and I love that movie yes

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oh absolutely absolutely and especially

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at the advent of the Cold War that that

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was our response to most every anything

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we didn't comprehend we didn't

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understand or that we feared right that

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we immediately called the called in the

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Marines so to speak but I think that's

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the reason and I think that that's fee

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now if it were a Michael Rennie who

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would invite me on board see for the

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longest time I you know for having seen

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that movie as a young boy right when it

274
00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:03,760
premiered on Saturday night at the

275
00:14:09,570 --> 00:14:08,350
movies on NBC and for years I had

276
00:14:11,830 --> 00:14:09,580
nightmares of gore

277
00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:11,840
waking up in the middle of the night and

278
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:13,670
seeing him stepping into the doorway of

279
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:19,210
my bedroom and so so there again as as

280
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:22,730
benevolent as Klaatu

281
00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:24,650
the Michael Rennie character was he

282
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:26,360
still threatened thus with total

283
00:14:30,490 --> 00:14:28,970
annihilation yes he did yes he did

284
00:14:32,410 --> 00:14:30,500
yeah you know what a word and I guess

285
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:32,420
that's the point that you know you

286
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:34,250
wouldn't trust someone that could squash

287
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:35,510
you like a bug

288
00:14:45,310 --> 00:14:40,720
and just for the the thrill of just that

289
00:14:47,980 --> 00:14:45,320
momentary you know you know feeling of

290
00:14:50,590 --> 00:14:47,990
just the exhilaration you know being

291
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,600
within I guess I would ask let me can I

292
00:14:55,510 --> 00:14:53,120
take a little tour but keep this thing

293
00:14:57,370 --> 00:14:55,520
on the ground might work far as I'd go

294
00:14:59,860 --> 00:14:57,380
well there was we're not lifting off

295
00:15:01,810 --> 00:14:59,870
there was something else about I can't

296
00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:01,820
believe we're talking about this but can

297
00:15:08,350 --> 00:15:05,300
I know what it's so much fun it in in in

298
00:15:11,140 --> 00:15:08,360
The Day the Earth Stood Still version

299
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:11,150
one there was another aspect to this

300
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:13,310
that didn't happen in earth and the

301
00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:15,470
flying saucers or any other you know

302
00:15:21,010 --> 00:15:17,750
vampires for Mars you know whatever

303
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:21,020
movie right but right that technically

304
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:24,770
the special effects the the spaceship

305
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:29,360
the seamless Gort the everything was

306
00:15:36,579 --> 00:15:33,710
real it looked real it was just

307
00:15:38,650 --> 00:15:36,589
fantastic it was eye candy and you

308
00:15:41,079 --> 00:15:38,660
didn't get that from anything else

309
00:15:42,579 --> 00:15:41,089
right it was just you know low-budget

310
00:15:44,860 --> 00:15:42,589
stuff fun to watch

311
00:15:47,290 --> 00:15:44,870
you know entertainment but the day that

312
00:15:49,630 --> 00:15:47,300
the Earth Stood Still technically the

313
00:15:52,930 --> 00:15:49,640
the construction of everything was

314
00:15:54,310 --> 00:15:52,940
seamless perfection and that was the

315
00:15:57,329 --> 00:15:54,320
other thing that freaked me out about

316
00:16:01,270 --> 00:15:57,339
the movie it took me there it was very

317
00:16:05,260 --> 00:16:01,280
that much of that was a result of the

318
00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:05,270
director Robert Wise who you know was

319
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:07,700
very much into the subject even at that

320
00:16:15,850 --> 00:16:10,970
time and then to finally have met him

321
00:16:18,220 --> 00:16:15,860
and then for for his attending the

322
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:18,230
premiere of our Roswell movie at the

323
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:22,430
Directors Guild and I mean his his

324
00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:23,360
approaching

325
00:16:29,019 --> 00:16:26,029
and then taking me by the hand and just

326
00:16:31,989 --> 00:16:29,029
I am so proud of you boys he just went

327
00:16:36,429 --> 00:16:31,999
on and on and on and coming from someone

328
00:16:39,249 --> 00:16:36,439
you know of that reputation right and it

329
00:16:41,499 --> 00:16:39,259
just came full circle from being you

330
00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:41,509
know just scared to death of his movie

331
00:16:46,119 --> 00:16:43,220
to the point that he was then

332
00:16:48,939 --> 00:16:46,129
complimenting me that many years later

333
00:16:51,249 --> 00:16:48,949
and that he was proud of what we had

334
00:16:53,229 --> 00:16:51,259
accomplished all my I could have never

335
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,239
predicted that in a million years you

336
00:16:58,749 --> 00:16:55,519
know when did I so was the Directors

337
00:17:01,259 --> 00:16:58,759
Guild on Sunset Boulevard yes that's a

338
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:01,269
big deal man that's how it was it's a

339
00:17:07,299 --> 00:17:04,850
wild absolutely because we had filmed

340
00:17:10,149 --> 00:17:07,309
the movie in thirty five-millimeter with

341
00:17:12,669 --> 00:17:10,159
the thought that my god this we got a

342
00:17:15,579 --> 00:17:12,679
playwright Arthur carpet who did the

343
00:17:17,769 --> 00:17:15,589
screenplay and we got a major cast of

344
00:17:22,329 --> 00:17:17,779
characters top to bottom we have a major

345
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:22,339
director and Jeremy Kagan and as far as

346
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:25,610
the who Elliot Goldenthal did this to

347
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:30,049
score and Steven Posner who did et did

348
00:17:35,470 --> 00:17:32,720
this far as the cinematography so they

349
00:17:38,529 --> 00:17:35,480
thought my god we could go future with

350
00:17:42,399 --> 00:17:38,539
this so they decided let's let's shoot

351
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:42,409
it in 35 and it had a limited run in a

352
00:17:48,669 --> 00:17:45,440
few theaters la New York I think at

353
00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:48,679
least one in DC and then they pulled the

354
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:53,529
plug on it so our you know chagrin but

355
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:55,970
the movie still stands I mean we just

356
00:18:02,259 --> 00:17:59,840
celebrated the 25th anniversary and also

357
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:02,269
you know not forgetting that we were

358
00:18:09,639 --> 00:18:05,330
nominated Best made-for-tv movie Golden

359
00:18:14,049 --> 00:18:09,649
Globe Awards in 1994 well here we are in

360
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:14,059
in 2019 where things now are moving

361
00:18:19,539 --> 00:18:16,880
along at a pretty fast clip my friend

362
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:19,549
they'd like to believe that it's it's

363
00:18:27,340 --> 00:18:23,570
it's it's almost it's almost too much is

364
00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:27,350
it a situation now where we need to be

365
00:18:32,529 --> 00:18:30,350
careful what we wish for you know what

366
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:32,539
what's your take on that with the way

367
00:18:37,369 --> 00:18:33,690
that

368
00:18:39,139 --> 00:18:37,379
UFOs and et in alien contact or in the

369
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:39,149
mainstream media and on the news nearly

370
00:18:45,529 --> 00:18:42,240
every day of the week now well god knows

371
00:18:47,169 --> 00:18:45,539
that I have jumped the shark a number of

372
00:18:51,169 --> 00:18:47,179
times myself just in that

373
00:18:53,470 --> 00:18:51,179
over-enthusiasm and obviously it's made

374
00:18:57,740 --> 00:18:53,480
me all the more cautious and

375
00:19:00,330 --> 00:18:57,750
apprehensive and housing here is sure it

376
00:19:01,779 --> 00:19:00,340
just it's just a natural reaction to

377
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:01,789
[Music]

378
00:19:06,889 --> 00:19:04,860
believing and and wanting something to

379
00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:06,899
finally be the final solution to the

380
00:19:13,639 --> 00:19:10,590
point that you rely on the experts to

381
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,649
lead the way and then it falls short

382
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:15,840
but you're the one left as far as with

383
00:19:22,279 --> 00:19:18,090
the egg on the face and that's where we

384
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:22,289
may if it's different with this and I

385
00:19:26,690 --> 00:19:24,090
saved for this reason and I pointed this

386
00:19:29,509 --> 00:19:26,700
out a number of times if this was the

387
00:19:31,369 --> 00:19:29,519
Air Force because the Air Force has been

388
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:31,379
leading the deception in the cover-up

389
00:19:37,549 --> 00:19:35,129
for now 72 years that's right if it were

390
00:19:41,869 --> 00:19:37,559
to be the Air Force today I wouldn't

391
00:19:43,490 --> 00:19:41,879
give them you know the time of day it's

392
00:19:45,409 --> 00:19:43,500
just how do you put the genie back in

393
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:45,419
the bottle how do you finally say just

394
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,370
kidding you know we were lying all these

395
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:48,960
years and now we're going to tell you

396
00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:51,679
the truth finally but with the Navy and

397
00:19:58,039 --> 00:19:55,049
I this was these were discussions we had

398
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,049
years ago and even going back to Hynek

399
00:20:03,379 --> 00:20:00,480
an especially polis project Bluebook

400
00:20:04,759 --> 00:20:03,389
now what most people aren't aware of it

401
00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:04,769
they don't consider is that with

402
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,750
Bluebook they think that in that in

403
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:09,120
encompass all the reports that were

404
00:20:14,990 --> 00:20:13,049
coming in Air Force Navy Army Marine

405
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:15,000
Corps that type of it they know it was

406
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:17,490
almost all Air Force in fact when blue

407
00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:20,730
book was Declassified back in 77 it was

408
00:20:24,019 --> 00:20:23,220
or were all the Navy cases where all the

409
00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:24,029
other branches

410
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:26,700
well they had their own investigations

411
00:20:31,820 --> 00:20:30,360
and they kept them to themselves they

412
00:20:34,820 --> 00:20:31,830
were a number public they were never

413
00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:34,830
announced but nonetheless they had their

414
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:37,769
own investigations and what we love to

415
00:20:42,340 --> 00:20:40,799
see those so here the Navy is acting

416
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:42,350
like they're the new kids on the block

417
00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:45,330
when they've had global surveillance I

418
00:20:49,369 --> 00:20:47,549
mean the Air Force you know is

419
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:49,379
- with it you know there's sovereign

420
00:20:54,919 --> 00:20:51,690
airspace and if we acquire other

421
00:20:57,109 --> 00:20:54,929
countries reports you know it's it's

422
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:57,119
it's it's it's very seldom that we have

423
00:21:03,289 --> 00:21:00,299
access to the foreign cases but with the

424
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:03,299
Navy you know they've been investigating

425
00:21:09,859 --> 00:21:06,450
this for just as long and they they're

426
00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:09,869
their files are brimming over and so

427
00:21:16,009 --> 00:21:12,809
that's where I have some hope that with

428
00:21:18,019 --> 00:21:16,019
the Navy and I keep pointing out as well

429
00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:18,029
they're in competition with the other

430
00:21:21,919 --> 00:21:20,220
branches don't and don't let anybody kid

431
00:21:23,989 --> 00:21:21,929
you that they're all working together no

432
00:21:25,639 --> 00:21:23,999
they do not work together and it was

433
00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:25,649
quite evident like with Desert Storm

434
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:28,830
with when Stormin Norman Schwarzkopf you

435
00:21:33,919 --> 00:21:31,289
know with the army was lamenting the

436
00:21:36,289 --> 00:21:33,929
fact that the Air Force wasn't telling

437
00:21:38,599 --> 00:21:36,299
them when they clearly declared air

438
00:21:41,659 --> 00:21:38,609
supremacy if they could march into

439
00:21:44,659 --> 00:21:41,669
downtown Baghdad safely or not and the

440
00:21:47,930 --> 00:21:44,669
Navy was still launching as far as as

441
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:47,940
far as Tomahawk missiles and cruise

442
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:51,090
missiles and nobody was on on the same

443
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:54,690
page together so that's recently so

444
00:22:00,259 --> 00:21:57,690
that's where I have hope that with the

445
00:22:03,619 --> 00:22:00,269
Navy now maybe stepping a foot into the

446
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:03,629
fore and saying now we're going to open

447
00:22:08,989 --> 00:22:06,330
our doors we're gonna because our record

448
00:22:10,609 --> 00:22:08,999
is clear we haven't been lying about

449
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:10,619
this we've been very methodically

450
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:12,960
working on this for now 70 some years

451
00:22:19,249 --> 00:22:16,710
and this is what we know and the second

452
00:22:22,729 --> 00:22:19,259
part of it being the fact that social

453
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:22,739
media is going to continue the pressure

454
00:22:27,019 --> 00:22:24,960
you mentioned as far as that it there's

455
00:22:29,629 --> 00:22:27,029
an ad a that goes by that we're not

456
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:29,639
getting more information another report

457
00:22:34,369 --> 00:22:31,980
more news coverage and that's the

458
00:22:37,159 --> 00:22:34,379
difference there should be a momentum

459
00:22:39,799 --> 00:22:37,169
and a crescendo that finally we reach a

460
00:22:42,259 --> 00:22:39,809
point that people are not going to storm

461
00:22:43,999 --> 00:22:42,269
area51 they're just going to all start

462
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,009
pointing the finger at Washington and

463
00:22:50,239 --> 00:22:46,320
saying you've had to proof all these

464
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:50,249
years and we demand to see it what about

465
00:22:59,790 --> 00:22:54,799
the part where the Navy is saying well

466
00:23:04,020 --> 00:22:59,800
yeah you know they're seeing something

467
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:04,030
we don't know what's going on but we're

468
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:07,840
interested well that part that that's a

469
00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:09,730
little misleading isn't it the Navy

470
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:11,800
knows exactly what's going on why would

471
00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:14,050
they well sure they do yeah I mean they

472
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:17,260
know they know if these are drones and

473
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:21,610
our technology or foreign technology you

474
00:23:26,010 --> 00:23:23,170
know Russians in Europe

475
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:26,020
why should but it's still I break it

476
00:23:30,780 --> 00:23:28,210
down to the three possibilities but

477
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:30,790
either they're ours and we don't want

478
00:23:36,930 --> 00:23:32,890
the Russians the Chinese to know that we

479
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:36,940
have this new technology or they're

480
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:39,250
either Russian or Chinese and we have a

481
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:41,170
lot of catching up to do and they're

482
00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:43,120
waiting for the paycheck you know we we

483
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:46,350
need you know increased military

484
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:49,440
allowance you know they play catch-up or

485
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:52,480
there are no ones and they don't know

486
00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:54,310
anything about it and they're just as

487
00:24:00,270 --> 00:23:58,090
much in the dark as we are and I believe

488
00:24:03,030 --> 00:24:00,280
it's the latter I believe it's a case of

489
00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:03,040
that they are just as much in awe at

490
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:05,470
what they are observing no less than

491
00:24:12,420 --> 00:24:08,290
they were 72 years ago that the

492
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:12,430
phenomena still smacks of you know a

493
00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:15,130
technology that we cannot bridge we

494
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:18,760
cannot catch up to and as a result they

495
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:21,850
the pilots themselves are just oh my god

496
00:24:24,930 --> 00:24:23,710
did you see what that thing just did

497
00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:24,940
right right right

498
00:24:30,420 --> 00:24:27,790
it's very interesting to me and I hope

499
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:30,430
that you know I don't trust the Pentagon

500
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:32,530
I don't trust the Navy I don't trust the

501
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:35,530
Air Force I don't trust the MIAA of any

502
00:24:40,350 --> 00:24:38,410
I know like you said they've been

503
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:40,360
ridiculing this community for a very

504
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:44,290
very very long time and and come along

505
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:46,890
now and go hey I'm now your best friend

506
00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:50,050
dad that yeah and anything now you can

507
00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:52,990
trust that I can believe us well I think

508
00:24:58,140 --> 00:24:54,760
that's one of the wonderful things that

509
00:25:01,320 --> 00:24:58,150
Roswell has especially taught me in that

510
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:01,330
if the government could resort to such

511
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:04,450
extreme measures back at that time in

512
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:06,610
other words that secrecy was more

513
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:10,450
important than anyone civil rights that

514
00:25:13,950 --> 00:25:12,370
if they could do that for a for a

515
00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:13,960
weather balloon

516
00:25:17,940 --> 00:25:15,790
then what could they do for something

517
00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:17,950
really extraordinary in their opinion

518
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:20,350
right yes in their opinion yes yes yes

519
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:24,730
and when we come back I want you to

520
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:27,310
think about this again this is a

521
00:25:35,940 --> 00:25:30,030
question I've never asked you before but

522
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:35,950
you in working with Hynek did you this

523
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:38,310
is a yes-or-no question did you memorize

524
00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:41,290
Project Blue Book did you go over all of

525
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:44,860
the cases that were there no for one

526
00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:47,470
simple reason because Heinicke ready

527
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:50,260
forewarn is that it was a scam that all

528
00:25:56,010 --> 00:25:52,690
the hardcore cases as he would put it

529
00:25:58,440 --> 00:25:56,020
went upstairs that there was really

530
00:26:02,340 --> 00:25:58,450
nothing significant in the Blue Book

531
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:02,350
files most of the cases were they

532
00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:05,950
explained the the cases as he would say

533
00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:09,070
they would jump cartwheels in going to

534
00:26:15,270 --> 00:26:11,350
the press the public whenever they could

535
00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:15,280
explain away a case and in knowing that

536
00:26:20,430 --> 00:26:17,920
he was so totally frustrated that he did

537
00:26:23,340 --> 00:26:20,440
not have access to the data the

538
00:26:25,650 --> 00:26:23,350
legitimate cases that he was hoping the

539
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:25,660
longer he would allow them to string him

540
00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:28,090
along baby finally take him into the

541
00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:30,070
confidence and I can honestly tell your

542
00:26:35,010 --> 00:26:32,140
audience and you Jimmy up to the day he

543
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:35,020
died they never did when we come back

544
00:26:40,110 --> 00:26:36,400
we're going to continue this discussion

545
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:40,120
it's a way way too important did you get

546
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:43,890
a chance we've got one minute one last

547
00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:46,570
did you get a chance to formulate an

548
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:49,270
opinion on Project Blue Book on History

549
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:54,240
Channel well first of all anything that

550
00:27:00,840 --> 00:26:58,210
provides a new audience a new level of

551
00:27:03,270 --> 00:27:00,850
entertainment that draws a a new

552
00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:03,280
selection of people into the fall I

553
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:05,590
think is commendable but as far as the

554
00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:08,770
accuracy no because Hynek spend very

555
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:11,260
little of any type any time in the field

556
00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:13,510
the one in about the only case that he

557
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:15,880
actually investigated in the field was

558
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:18,910
the coral in April of 64 right there's

559
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:21,730
no why's they kept him away knowing that

560
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:23,650
he was going to question their every

561
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:26,559
move that one scene in

562
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,690
I'm gonna roll to a commercial here but

563
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:30,880
there's that one scene where he's

564
00:27:37,710 --> 00:27:34,450
walking through von braun's laboratory

565
00:27:41,159 --> 00:27:37,720
right and the ETS are in the tanks of

566
00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:41,169
liquid I don't like now now wait a

567
00:27:47,010 --> 00:27:44,830
minute here right now right well of

568
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:47,020
course don't I just talk to myself if

569
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:50,169
they are revealing you know stuff from

570
00:27:54,659 --> 00:27:52,210
his diary or something that's never been

571
00:27:57,419 --> 00:27:54,669
you know discussed before and that

572
00:27:59,610 --> 00:27:57,429
actually happened holy crap but I know

573
00:28:01,710 --> 00:27:59,620
that it didn't but this is it it never

574
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:01,720
did no of course not but this is the

575
00:28:07,549 --> 00:28:04,870
thing the people out there that are

576
00:28:10,620 --> 00:28:07,559
seeing this for the first time are

577
00:28:12,210 --> 00:28:10,630
assuming you know because of the way

578
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:12,220
that they start the show and the way

579
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:14,049
they know this from the actual files

580
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:19,260
abroad to Blue Book right that this is a

581
00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:22,480
nonfiction treatment you're right that

582
00:28:27,810 --> 00:28:25,390
this actually has correct and that is

583
00:28:29,789 --> 00:28:27,820
correct and when they say that these are

584
00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:29,799
from the files of Project Blue Book

585
00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:32,409
they're portraying cases that blue book

586
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:35,110
never investigated that is the term

587
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:37,690
deception on their part strictly for

588
00:28:41,549 --> 00:28:39,130
entertainment purposes and we know

589
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:41,559
that's what the show is all about I you

590
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:43,570
know what it's fun to watch though find

591
00:28:48,419 --> 00:28:46,330
the watch I think so it's it's fun to

592
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:48,429
watch let's take a break our guest

593
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:51,520
tonight the one and only Don Schmidt I'm

594
00:28:55,230 --> 00:28:53,049
holding up his new book to the cameras

595
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:55,240
just released in paperback UFO secrets

596
00:28:59,580 --> 00:28:57,039
inside wright-patterson we'll get to all

597
00:29:00,080 --> 00:28:59,590
of that after this short break stay with

598
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:00,090
me

599
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:20,090
[Music]

600
00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:22,450
welcome back fade to black I'm your

601
00:29:29,549 --> 00:29:26,769
signature tonight Don Schmidt Tom Carey

602
00:29:31,529 --> 00:29:29,559
and Don wrote you opposed secrets inside

603
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:31,539
right Pat it's right there holding it up

604
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:33,039
and go to Amazon get it now just

605
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,490
released in paperback I've read this

606
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:38,080
thing cover to cover now three times

607
00:29:43,649 --> 00:29:40,750
down it's a great read I learned so much

608
00:29:47,730 --> 00:29:43,659
stuff from this book and this is my next

609
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:47,740
question I set you up for the fall with

610
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:49,450
this next question and it's this

611
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:53,679
honestly Don Roswell comes along you've

612
00:29:56,879 --> 00:29:55,210
been working with Hynek you've been

613
00:30:00,060 --> 00:29:56,889
doing this you've been investigated in

614
00:30:03,509 --> 00:30:00,070
look at you are just you know you're up

615
00:30:07,139 --> 00:30:03,519
to it it to your neck Roswell comes

616
00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:07,149
along did you go well wait a minute here

617
00:30:13,470 --> 00:30:11,350
hold on did you go back and and and look

618
00:30:16,619 --> 00:30:13,480
through your research material going

619
00:30:19,769 --> 00:30:16,629
back you know 50 60 years to find any

620
00:30:22,169 --> 00:30:19,779
mention of Roswell anywhere you know

621
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:22,179
what I mean it's not in blue book it's

622
00:30:28,049 --> 00:30:25,870
not it's not anywhere this is strange to

623
00:30:29,999 --> 00:30:28,059
me what went through your mind not you

624
00:30:35,070 --> 00:30:30,009
know if you think about it not Kehoe

625
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,080
right not Long John Neville out of York

626
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:37,840
do a late night dog radio nobody

627
00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:41,710
mentioned Roswell before did they well I

628
00:30:47,850 --> 00:30:45,070
mean there were a few mentions like with

629
00:30:54,029 --> 00:30:47,860
Frank Edwards and Harold Wilkins and a

630
00:30:57,180 --> 00:30:54,039
few books through the 60s and as we all

631
00:31:00,419 --> 00:30:57,190
know the main whistleblower was a major

632
00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:00,429
Jesse Marcel the intelligence officer at

633
00:31:06,749 --> 00:31:03,580
Roswell 1947 when he broke his oath of

634
00:31:10,289 --> 00:31:06,759
secrecy in 1978 when he was diagnosed

635
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:10,299
with emphysema but even when the first

636
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:12,490
book came out in 1980 Roswell incident

637
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:15,039
by Morin Berlitz I didn't buy it I

638
00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:17,350
wasn't interested in fact it was very

639
00:31:22,860 --> 00:31:20,409
skeptical on the very notion in fact I

640
00:31:24,419 --> 00:31:22,870
wrote a paper in 1985 that I just could

641
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:24,429
not accept that they could keep

642
00:31:30,869 --> 00:31:26,820
something of that magnitude a secret

643
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:30,879
after all that time but they were so if

644
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:33,520
so effective

645
00:31:40,740 --> 00:31:36,850
far as in creating the straw man and

646
00:31:44,910 --> 00:31:40,750
tearing it down and getting the press as

647
00:31:48,930 --> 00:31:44,920
far as to align themselves with the

648
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:48,940
counters story that the true nature of

649
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:51,760
what took place and the fact that they

650
00:31:55,950 --> 00:31:53,710
were very adept at keeping secrets

651
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:55,960
because it was in the face of the

652
00:32:00,510 --> 00:31:57,730
Manhattan Project with the atomic bomb

653
00:32:03,420 --> 00:32:00,520
and then just two years after World War

654
00:32:06,060 --> 00:32:03,430
two so they were all heavily school in

655
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:06,070
keeping their mouths quiet and as a

656
00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:07,810
result it couldn't have happened at a

657
00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:11,320
better time to keep secrets and so even

658
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:13,390
approaching this as a skeptic nine years

659
00:32:18,990 --> 00:32:15,850
later in 1989 with Kevin Randle as we

660
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:19,000
both were skeptical on the case when we

661
00:32:22,890 --> 00:32:20,710
thought we'd make a single weekend jaunt

662
00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:22,900
down to New Mexico and you know prove

663
00:32:27,740 --> 00:32:24,940
this was a weather balloon device or

664
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:27,750
something something just as prosaic and

665
00:32:32,550 --> 00:32:30,370
it was within the first trip and

666
00:32:34,770 --> 00:32:32,560
speaking to firsthand witnesses that

667
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:34,780
handled the wreckage and we thought what

668
00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:38,050
if we're wrong and we quickly realized

669
00:32:43,410 --> 00:32:41,260
that they were all on you know very

670
00:32:46,020 --> 00:32:43,420
consistent describing the same details

671
00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:46,030
the same exotic qualities of the

672
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:48,400
wreckage and we realized we better come

673
00:32:53,340 --> 00:32:50,890
up with speed on this because we did not

674
00:32:55,980 --> 00:32:53,350
have anything in our notes and in our

675
00:32:58,350 --> 00:32:55,990
files regarding this and the last thing

676
00:33:00,420 --> 00:32:58,360
we wanted was for this to hit us like a

677
00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:00,430
ton of bricks and then we wouldn't be

678
00:33:06,450 --> 00:33:02,500
able to crawl out underneath it right

679
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:06,460
and when you go and listen which which I

680
00:33:11,690 --> 00:33:09,790
have done and you go and listen to I

681
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:11,700
just brought up Long John Noble and

682
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:14,710
listen to his series of radio shows out

683
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:18,210
of New York and one of them specifically

684
00:33:26,220 --> 00:33:23,370
has Kenneth Arnold on Donald Kehoe and

685
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:26,230
four or five other researchers and

686
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:28,210
they're all you know his show was called

687
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:29,770
the party line so he would have like

688
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:31,090
five guests and they would sit around

689
00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:32,970
and talk about things and and this is

690
00:33:37,980 --> 00:33:35,830
1958 so they're all sitting there

691
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:37,990
talking and they're they're bringing up

692
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:41,170
Nazi flying saucers in 1958 they're

693
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:43,450
bringing up menzel alright they're

694
00:33:50,909 --> 00:33:46,210
bringing up about other men yeah

695
00:33:55,169 --> 00:33:50,919
Donald Hollinger yeah yeah no no no the

696
00:33:57,810 --> 00:33:55,179
the p-51 Mustang over Ohio both Thomas

697
00:34:02,310 --> 00:33:57,820
Mantell Montell what I say mensier

698
00:34:03,930 --> 00:34:02,320
Montel and and and and Kenneth Arnold of

699
00:34:06,359 --> 00:34:03,940
course is talking about mountain we're

700
00:34:10,349 --> 00:34:06,369
near and they're bringing up all of

701
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:10,359
these nobody mentions Roswell and

702
00:34:15,809 --> 00:34:12,450
Kehoe's book flying saucers are real

703
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:15,819
which I have over at the house it was

704
00:34:21,809 --> 00:34:19,270
just gifted to me an original copy of

705
00:34:26,099 --> 00:34:21,819
the book no mention of Roswell you know

706
00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:26,109
and it is it's it's amazing to me not

707
00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:29,260
only the cover-up but that the rest of

708
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:32,079
America managed to forget about a2 as

709
00:34:39,569 --> 00:34:35,050
well it was covered majorly in July of

710
00:34:42,659 --> 00:34:39,579
1947 but was effectively erased from pop

711
00:34:44,819 --> 00:34:42,669
culture too that nobody else just

712
00:34:47,180 --> 00:34:44,829
wondering you know yes it was and we

713
00:34:48,419 --> 00:34:47,190
need to also keep in mind that up till

714
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:48,429
Roswell

715
00:34:55,649 --> 00:34:53,169
there was a spiraling upward list of

716
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:55,659
reports that were coming in banner

717
00:34:59,940 --> 00:34:58,210
headlines your listeners could go to any

718
00:35:02,760 --> 00:34:59,950
public library and pull out all the

719
00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:02,770
microfilm on the microfiche of the

720
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:05,470
newspapers the press accounts that last

721
00:35:10,170 --> 00:35:08,650
week of June first week of July of 1947

722
00:35:14,130 --> 00:35:10,180
and you would swear we were being

723
00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:14,140
invaded and for a lot of the people at

724
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:16,569
the Pentagon at that time it was like oh

725
00:35:21,569 --> 00:35:19,119
my god we have a real War of the Worlds

726
00:35:24,510 --> 00:35:21,579
just nine years after that radio

727
00:35:26,910 --> 00:35:24,520
broadcast you know we have one actually

728
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:26,920
on our hands because we don't know what

729
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:29,290
we're dealing with and then the attempts

730
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:31,569
to try to bring one down and then the

731
00:35:35,849 --> 00:35:33,130
attempts at least try to capture

732
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:35,859
something on camera and then roswell

733
00:35:40,319 --> 00:35:38,170
happens and they put off that press

734
00:35:42,839 --> 00:35:40,329
release on tuesday july 8th that they

735
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:42,849
actually captured a flying saucer but

736
00:35:47,460 --> 00:35:45,490
that was all part of the staged cover-up

737
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:47,470
that was all part of how they were going

738
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:51,119
to then deal with the entire situation

739
00:35:56,250 --> 00:35:53,890
because it wasn't just a balloon press

740
00:35:58,650 --> 00:35:56,260
conference where they swept this under

741
00:36:00,090 --> 00:35:58,660
the carpet forever or they had hoped to

742
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:00,100
but then they put on

743
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:02,710
balloon demonstrations all over the

744
00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:05,890
country over the next few weeks trying

745
00:36:12,570 --> 00:36:08,740
to put a nail in the tire flying saucer

746
00:36:15,540 --> 00:36:12,580
coffin and the sighting reports dropped

747
00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:15,550
off drastically you would have sworn

748
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:17,500
that they packed up and went home

749
00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:20,530
whoever they were and the sightings

750
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:23,350
continued it's just that the people

751
00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:26,710
because of now the escalating ridicule

752
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:29,380
factor the fact that the government was

753
00:36:34,050 --> 00:36:31,690
demonstrating that we're not going to

754
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:34,060
treat this subject seriously we're not

755
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:36,250
gonna listen to you any longer because

756
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:38,530
as far as we're concerned they're just

757
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:41,170
balloons it's all explainable they're

758
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:44,170
all hoaxes nothing to see here

759
00:36:50,430 --> 00:36:47,470
but in reality the phenomena persisted

760
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:50,440
and then especially leading up to the

761
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:54,970
overflights of DC in July of 1952 then

762
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,570
it was a case of where the CIA steps in

763
00:37:01,890 --> 00:36:59,920
and goes well the Air Force is

764
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:01,900
incompetent they can't even control the

765
00:37:07,710 --> 00:37:04,240
situation any longer so we're going to

766
00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:07,720
and then the rest becomes history but it

767
00:37:14,330 --> 00:37:11,260
was all done in such a way whether it

768
00:37:17,550 --> 00:37:14,340
was keyhole who they were spoon feeding

769
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:17,560
just mundane cases just to keep him

770
00:37:22,350 --> 00:37:19,200
distracted

771
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:22,360
they kept they kept evil on a tight

772
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:24,190
leash they kept hiding on a tight leash

773
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:27,190
they were making sure that they did not

774
00:37:34,340 --> 00:37:30,210
have as I was describing Hynek earlier

775
00:37:38,180 --> 00:37:34,350
access to the hard core the real

776
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:38,190
important cases that were going on and

777
00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:40,720
that's where Project Blue Book was such

778
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:42,520
a disappointment because when they were

779
00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:44,410
funny Declassified there was really

780
00:37:55,620 --> 00:37:49,390
nothing there was there was there a

781
00:37:58,770 --> 00:37:55,630
change in in hynek's belief system of

782
00:38:03,330 --> 00:37:58,780
the reality of the UFO question later on

783
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:03,340
and his life did was there and putting

784
00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:05,650
the TV series aside and his family aside

785
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:08,080
but from what you knew do you think that

786
00:38:13,290 --> 00:38:11,200
he was exposed to the truth about UFOs

787
00:38:18,270 --> 00:38:13,300
and just never

788
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:18,280
about it not intentionally and whatever

789
00:38:30,980 --> 00:38:25,770
truth you was exposed to was by his own

790
00:38:32,850 --> 00:38:30,990
tenacity his own aggressiveness in

791
00:38:35,850 --> 00:38:32,860
finding the truth

792
00:38:38,450 --> 00:38:35,860
he was never provided the truth that we

793
00:38:41,130 --> 00:38:38,460
have ever been able to determine in fact

794
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:41,140
when Alan Hendry was our chief

795
00:38:47,010 --> 00:38:42,730
investigator at the Center for UFO

796
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:47,020
studies and he was with the family after

797
00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:49,570
dr. Hynek was at the Moffitt clinic in

798
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:51,700
San Francisco and he had the brain tumor

799
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:55,090
removed and even in the old recovery

800
00:39:02,010 --> 00:38:59,440
room right after that operation that

801
00:39:03,930 --> 00:39:02,020
that Alan was that Hynek was was tossing

802
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:03,940
and turning and all he kept saying over

803
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:05,890
and over again why can't they tell me

804
00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:09,910
why can't they tell me now so even at

805
00:39:15,810 --> 00:39:12,280
that point he felt that he had been

806
00:39:18,060 --> 00:39:15,820
totally abandoned that he in many ways I

807
00:39:20,250 --> 00:39:18,070
tell the story and he had told this to

808
00:39:23,580 --> 00:39:20,260
myself and a few others including Budd

809
00:39:28,220 --> 00:39:23,590
Hopkins the late Budd Hopkins that he

810
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:28,230
knew Donald Rumsfeld personally in fact

811
00:39:33,780 --> 00:39:31,330
when Rumsfeld originally was a

812
00:39:37,530 --> 00:39:33,790
congressman Hynek was one of his

813
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:37,540
constituents in Evanston Illinois in

814
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:41,610
fact when they had the initial hearings

815
00:39:51,330 --> 00:39:47,170
before Congress in 1966 the very person

816
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:51,340
who glowingly introduced Hynek on the

817
00:39:55,410 --> 00:39:53,650
floor as far as the House of

818
00:39:59,400 --> 00:39:55,420
Representatives was none other than

819
00:40:02,820 --> 00:39:59,410
congressman Donald Rumsfeld and then

820
00:40:06,330 --> 00:40:02,830
when Rumsfeld became Gerald Ford's first

821
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:06,340
secretary of defense and then later when

822
00:40:13,230 --> 00:40:09,370
he became george w bush's secretary

823
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:13,240
defense so but it was during the Ford

824
00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:15,490
administration that Hynek was in

825
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:17,830
Washington and he thought I'm going to

826
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:20,290
pay a little visit to my former

827
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:22,810
congressman and I'm gonna lay it on the

828
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:25,570
table and honey would tell us the story

829
00:40:29,049 --> 00:40:26,630
that he was

830
00:40:31,029 --> 00:40:29,059
sitting in Rumsfeld's office then

831
00:40:34,059 --> 00:40:31,039
Secretary of Defense for the first time

832
00:40:37,299 --> 00:40:34,069
as far as under Gerald Ford President

833
00:40:42,099 --> 00:40:37,309
Gerald Ford and he find he said to him I

834
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:42,109
believe I've given enough of my life

835
00:40:49,420 --> 00:40:45,440
that I deserve an answer I've devoted

836
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:49,430
and committed myself to providing as far

837
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:54,319
as a scientific attitude towards the

838
00:40:59,200 --> 00:40:56,930
resolution of the UFO phenomenon I've

839
00:41:01,450 --> 00:40:59,210
given you all these years and you have

840
00:41:04,029 --> 00:41:01,460
given me nothing in return I believe I

841
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:04,039
deserve something and Hynek would

842
00:41:08,170 --> 00:41:05,630
describe that Rumsfeld got up from

843
00:41:10,509 --> 00:41:08,180
behind his desk walked over to him

844
00:41:13,359 --> 00:41:10,519
looked down at him and put his finger

845
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:13,369
right in his face and said you have no

846
00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:19,730
right to know I have I have here I'm not

847
00:41:24,569 --> 00:41:21,049
gonna hold them up to the camera or go

848
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:24,579
through it I have a bunch of hynek's

849
00:41:30,999 --> 00:41:26,930
original investigations you know from

850
00:41:32,769 --> 00:41:31,009
Sophos Koufos and looking through them

851
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:32,779
and the way that the interviews were

852
00:41:36,460 --> 00:41:34,730
conducted and looking at the signatures

853
00:41:38,769 --> 00:41:36,470
at the bottom of you know the

854
00:41:42,609 --> 00:41:38,779
investigators as well as the witnesses

855
00:41:44,109 --> 00:41:42,619
these are incredible cases and and most

856
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:44,119
of them have covered them on the show

857
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:45,680
but they're not out there in the

858
00:41:50,499 --> 00:41:47,210
mainstream they have been covered in

859
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:50,509
books or documentaries and there there

860
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:52,970
are some very important cases that were

861
00:42:00,759 --> 00:41:56,450
happening there why why didn't

862
00:42:02,529 --> 00:42:00,769
Hynek choose to go more public with this

863
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:02,539
it seems like he would be able to pound

864
00:42:06,759 --> 00:42:04,609
his fist on the table and go look this

865
00:42:10,029 --> 00:42:06,769
is look at this case and look at this

866
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:10,039
case and look at this case and and be

867
00:42:14,799 --> 00:42:12,319
more vocal about it it seemed like he

868
00:42:18,789 --> 00:42:14,809
went in the other direction was he

869
00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:18,799
frustrated totally frustrated and he and

870
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:20,750
more and more bitter as far as

871
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:22,730
especially in the latter part of his

872
00:42:27,069 --> 00:42:25,160
life and he would often make the comment

873
00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:27,079
what will Carl say what will Carl say

874
00:42:33,370 --> 00:42:29,390
right when we were working on a kv-1

875
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:33,380
sting Carl Sagan and much of that stem

876
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:37,130
from that infamous debate between the

877
00:42:40,450 --> 00:42:39,920
two of them and and poor Allen Hynek who

878
00:42:44,020 --> 00:42:40,460
came occur

879
00:42:46,210 --> 00:42:44,030
like Don Knotts with his shaking hands

880
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:46,220
and with his notes and his his speech

881
00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:49,250
and then Seguin you know the consummate

882
00:42:53,050 --> 00:42:51,080
performer stepping off from the podium

883
00:42:55,450 --> 00:42:53,060
and taking the microphone and just doing

884
00:42:58,570 --> 00:42:55,460
stick for an hour that type of thing

885
00:43:01,060 --> 00:42:58,580
Hynek never got over that and it was no

886
00:43:04,810 --> 00:43:01,070
less than the way men's old Donald Men's

887
00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:04,820
of the Harvard astrophysicist and what

888
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:07,310
Edward Condon as far as with the Condon

889
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:10,250
report what they did the Hynek they were

890
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:13,609
constantly ridiculing and making every

891
00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:17,510
effort to discredit him and Hynek not

892
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:20,990
only was he a slight demure man but he

893
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:23,089
also was a soft-spoken very humble

894
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:27,170
scientist and I never heard him once

895
00:43:32,349 --> 00:43:29,810
become angry or agitated to the point

896
00:43:35,770 --> 00:43:32,359
that even raised his voice because I

897
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:35,780
don't know if he was capable of really

898
00:43:41,230 --> 00:43:37,730
you know demonstrating as far as that

899
00:43:43,329 --> 00:43:41,240
level of frustration did you know did

900
00:43:46,329 --> 00:43:43,339
you learn something from that Don in

901
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:46,339
that you've never given up you know

902
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:49,490
you've you've you've gone through your

903
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:51,200
ups and downs in this community of all

904
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:53,930
years and oh yeah did you learn

905
00:44:00,160 --> 00:43:57,530
something from the way that dr. Hynek

906
00:44:01,690 --> 00:44:00,170
dealt with this and his personality are

907
00:44:05,290 --> 00:44:01,700
you different because of it

908
00:44:10,030 --> 00:44:05,300
I look back on a number of things first

909
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:10,040
of all on one occasion with the Koufos

910
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,490
head an investigator is a test that they

911
00:44:19,420 --> 00:44:15,200
were circulating throughout the field

912
00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:19,430
and it was after a board meeting and I

913
00:44:25,390 --> 00:44:22,280
was at the Hynek residence and John T

914
00:44:27,550 --> 00:44:25,400
Timmerman was our vice president at that

915
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:27,560
time it was a major benefactor for the

916
00:44:33,940 --> 00:44:31,040
center and so he was very closely allied

917
00:44:37,930 --> 00:44:33,950
with dr. Hynek at that time and I'll

918
00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:37,940
never forget Timmerman commenting to dr.

919
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:40,510
Hynek you know I didn't notice Don's

920
00:44:46,089 --> 00:44:42,650
results in the test aren't you going to

921
00:44:49,060 --> 00:44:46,099
give Don two tests and a heinie kind of

922
00:44:52,829 --> 00:44:49,070
smirk and then he went give him that he

923
00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:52,839
could test me and

924
00:44:57,779 --> 00:44:55,569
you know the you're coming from you know

925
00:45:00,719 --> 00:44:57,789
J Allen Hynek and I could test him and

926
00:45:03,959 --> 00:45:00,729
then later before the Smithsonian debate

927
00:45:06,450 --> 00:45:03,969
which included Hynek and art again chief

928
00:45:11,579 --> 00:45:06,460
investigator Ellen Hendry and dr. Bruce

929
00:45:14,370 --> 00:45:11,589
Maccabee versus Philip J class and James

930
00:45:17,969 --> 00:45:14,380
Oberg and Robert Schaeffer yes its own

931
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:17,979
Ian I was hynek's coaches I would have

932
00:45:21,839 --> 00:45:19,450
loved to have been on that when I would

933
00:45:23,459 --> 00:45:21,849
have slap some people around but I was

934
00:45:25,289 --> 00:45:23,469
one of his coaches so in other words as

935
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:25,299
we were rehearsing and practicing I was

936
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:28,089
one of the coaches and then I stand I

937
00:45:31,289 --> 00:45:29,680
step forward after Ellen passed away

938
00:45:33,660 --> 00:45:31,299
three years later we're having the very

939
00:45:37,259 --> 00:45:33,670
first archeological dig at the crash

940
00:45:39,809 --> 00:45:37,269
site at the debris field and Mimi Hynek

941
00:45:43,380 --> 00:45:39,819
Alan's widow was there with us

942
00:45:45,450 --> 00:45:43,390
she had an archaeological background

943
00:45:47,549 --> 00:45:45,460
they were you know she was living in

944
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:47,559
Scottsdale as the Hynix did in the last

945
00:45:52,109 --> 00:45:50,170
two years of his life and so we thought

946
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,119
of just how our four tuned you know

947
00:45:57,630 --> 00:45:54,640
wonderful that she could drive over from

948
00:46:00,900 --> 00:45:57,640
Arizona and be with us and if she said

949
00:46:02,609 --> 00:46:00,910
it once she said it a dozen times when

950
00:46:06,930 --> 00:46:02,619
she looked at us and she went

951
00:46:10,249 --> 00:46:06,940
Ellen would be so proud of you boys and

952
00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:10,259
I'd so I have to think of you know that

953
00:46:15,509 --> 00:46:13,630
dr. J Allen Hynek started something and

954
00:46:18,180 --> 00:46:15,519
I damn well I'm gonna do all I can to

955
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:18,190
finish it because I'd like to believe he

956
00:46:23,099 --> 00:46:19,839
is still up there looking down and going

957
00:46:29,609 --> 00:46:23,109
I'm proud of you boys hopefully he

958
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:29,619
didn't watch the new series though well

959
00:46:36,930 --> 00:46:33,729
it's it's it's it's credit long overdue

960
00:46:39,950 --> 00:46:36,940
but again what so much creative license

961
00:46:44,729 --> 00:46:39,960
that Hollywood has a reputation of

962
00:46:47,849 --> 00:46:44,739
exercising but he always would tell us

963
00:46:49,769 --> 00:46:47,859
as long as I'm there at the at the

964
00:46:52,049 --> 00:46:49,779
finish line it doesn't matter who's

965
00:46:55,019 --> 00:46:52,059
there first or how we get there I just

966
00:46:57,690 --> 00:46:55,029
want to be there I didn't know it was so

967
00:47:00,569 --> 00:46:57,700
part of it yeah yeah yeah I'm on every

968
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:00,579
episode which I did I watch a couple of

969
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:03,249
them twice i sat out loud to read a few

970
00:47:06,859 --> 00:47:05,170
Takao man he's turning in his grave

971
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:06,869
right now

972
00:47:11,010 --> 00:47:09,250
because I didn't I didn't know that you

973
00:47:13,770 --> 00:47:11,020
know he was involved in shootouts and

974
00:47:15,540 --> 00:47:13,780
plane crashes and oh man body

975
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:15,550
I know I know recreations of plane

976
00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:19,390
crashes and and just but he did love

977
00:47:24,270 --> 00:47:22,150
field investigation that was the one of

978
00:47:26,310 --> 00:47:24,280
the things he was so stifled with the

979
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:26,320
airforce with Project Blue Book who

980
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:29,770
always again kept him away kept him away

981
00:47:35,340 --> 00:47:32,800
from fieldwork and once he started the

982
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:35,350
center and that's when he could go to

983
00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:37,330
Papua New Guinea and he could go up to

984
00:47:43,820 --> 00:47:40,390
his Dahlan and he could stretch through

985
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:43,830
knee-deep snow and the Hudson Valley

986
00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:47,200
boomerang sightings in the early 80s and

987
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,030
Jenny Zeidman who was his private

988
00:47:53,580 --> 00:47:51,280
secretary and we were always joking that

989
00:47:55,410 --> 00:47:53,590
you know Ellen's you know in his element

990
00:47:59,400 --> 00:47:55,420
right now because he's out there playing

991
00:48:01,560 --> 00:47:59,410
cowboys and Indians and to us it was it

992
00:48:05,870 --> 00:48:01,570
was much more than that but it was like

993
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:05,880
he was doing exactly what the Air Force

994
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:08,770
essentially handcuffed him from doing

995
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:12,400
and that was actual field investigation

996
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:14,770
because if Ellen could have done what

997
00:48:24,810 --> 00:48:18,010
the series is is portraying dramatizing

998
00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:24,820
he would have now your your book which

999
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:26,950
we're talking about Hynek in project

1000
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:29,680
blue book your book UFO secrets inside

1001
00:48:36,930 --> 00:48:33,490
wright-patterson hynek's offices blue

1002
00:48:39,630 --> 00:48:36,940
books offices were iPad right absolutely

1003
00:48:41,310 --> 00:48:39,640
project sign project grudge and Project

1004
00:48:44,820 --> 00:48:41,320
Blue Book all headquartered at

1005
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:44,830
wright-patt and he did he understand the

1006
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:46,960
history because we're gonna start

1007
00:48:51,210 --> 00:48:48,730
talking about right Pat right now but

1008
00:48:55,410 --> 00:48:51,220
did he understand the history of right

1009
00:48:59,190 --> 00:48:55,420
Pat and and its ties to aliens and et at

1010
00:49:02,940 --> 00:48:59,200
that time no he did not and in fact that

1011
00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:02,950
was the ongoing you know joke that as

1012
00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:07,030
long as no one even realized that there

1013
00:49:14,310 --> 00:49:11,590
were sub levels that there were secret

1014
00:49:17,580 --> 00:49:14,320
hangars again Hynek and even jenny

1015
00:49:20,099 --> 00:49:17,590
Zeidman would describe how they had a

1016
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:20,109
specific route a drive

1017
00:49:25,529 --> 00:49:22,450
onto the base and they went directly to

1018
00:49:28,829 --> 00:49:25,539
Blue Book headquarters which was just a

1019
00:49:32,359 --> 00:49:28,839
single room in one of the office

1020
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:32,369
buildings and he never was allowed to

1021
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:37,150
see or or tour any other buildings

1022
00:49:43,529 --> 00:49:40,690
hangars facilities on the base if

1023
00:49:46,079 --> 00:49:43,539
actually talked about that if they drove

1024
00:49:47,969 --> 00:49:46,089
off course if they in fact she feared

1025
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:47,979
for her life on one occasion where she

1026
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:50,559
described that she found herself in a

1027
00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:52,209
restricted area and she thought she was

1028
00:49:58,650 --> 00:49:53,049
going to get shot

1029
00:50:01,049 --> 00:49:58,660
I had a friend it doesn't matter who it

1030
00:50:02,249 --> 00:50:01,059
was on this show this couple of years

1031
00:50:03,660 --> 00:50:02,259
ago and we were just having a

1032
00:50:08,309 --> 00:50:03,670
conversation like you and I are having

1033
00:50:14,489 --> 00:50:08,319
now and that this person worked on the

1034
00:50:17,459 --> 00:50:14,499
base and said that everybody on base at

1035
00:50:19,609 --> 00:50:17,469
wright-patt civilian employee government

1036
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:19,619
employee Air Force it doesn't matter

1037
00:50:25,259 --> 00:50:23,440
everybody talks about UFOs everybody

1038
00:50:28,229 --> 00:50:25,269
dance about the alien bodies at

1039
00:50:30,959 --> 00:50:28,239
wright-patt it's like yeah it's an open

1040
00:50:33,569 --> 00:50:30,969
conversation they have t-shirts right

1041
00:50:36,959 --> 00:50:33,579
you can go can't you go to the right bat

1042
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:36,969
gift shop and buy a hand at the very

1043
00:50:44,130 --> 00:50:39,910
Arab air museum absolutely and you can

1044
00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:44,140
take a tour and the the the guide will

1045
00:50:48,479 --> 00:50:46,150
even jokingly point to a different

1046
00:50:50,219 --> 00:50:48,489
hangar you know depending on what day of

1047
00:50:52,289 --> 00:50:50,229
the week and say and that's where we

1048
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:52,299
keep the pickled aliens on ice right

1049
00:50:57,539 --> 00:50:54,400
right right so that's how you do it

1050
00:50:59,549 --> 00:50:57,549
right you don't do it you keep me you

1051
00:51:01,559 --> 00:50:59,559
keep this gritting it you keep mocking

1052
00:51:04,999 --> 00:51:01,569
it you keep making fun of it I'll give

1053
00:51:09,079 --> 00:51:05,009
you a quick example Jimmy when the first

1054
00:51:11,759 --> 00:51:09,089
version of this now new book came out

1055
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:11,769
inside the real area 51 the secret

1056
00:51:20,339 --> 00:51:18,299
producer-director paul davids was

1057
00:51:23,489 --> 00:51:20,349
contacted by public relations at

1058
00:51:25,469 --> 00:51:23,499
wright-patterson and they asked you

1059
00:51:26,969 --> 00:51:25,479
wouldn't have any of the props or you

1060
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:26,979
wouldn't know where we could find any of

1061
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:28,930
the props from the Roswell movie that

1062
00:51:33,930 --> 00:51:32,410
you did a number of years ago and any

1063
00:51:36,930 --> 00:51:33,940
respond it was a matter of

1064
00:51:40,410 --> 00:51:36,940
fact I have the very animatronic alien

1065
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:40,420
in my possession that was from the movie

1066
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:44,319
and they said well it would be possible

1067
00:51:48,930 --> 00:51:47,470
that we might be able to borrow it for

1068
00:51:51,690 --> 00:51:48,940
some extended period of time

1069
00:51:53,460 --> 00:51:51,700
and Paul immediately called me and he

1070
00:51:57,690 --> 00:51:53,470
said what I'm thinking I could make this

1071
00:52:00,720 --> 00:51:57,700
into a you know a summer tour I could do

1072
00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:00,730
a cross-country Drive from LA to Dayton

1073
00:52:05,010 --> 00:52:03,310
Ohio with the alien you know sitting

1074
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:05,020
next to me in the front seat right on

1075
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:09,210
and I said well let's do it if we can

1076
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:15,970
get 101 consolidation and that was we

1077
00:52:20,609 --> 00:52:18,640
want to show the movie we'll bring the

1078
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:20,619
alien if we can show the Roswell movie

1079
00:52:26,609 --> 00:52:23,890
on the base and the base commander got

1080
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:26,619
involved and immediately declined and

1081
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:29,440
said we are not about to provide our

1082
00:52:36,930 --> 00:52:34,089
staff and personnel with a position

1083
00:52:40,290 --> 00:52:36,940
contrary to official Air Force policy on

1084
00:52:42,030 --> 00:52:40,300
the subject but so once again we're not

1085
00:52:43,410 --> 00:52:42,040
gonna let you think for yourselves we're

1086
00:52:45,210 --> 00:52:43,420
not gonna provide you with an

1087
00:52:47,069 --> 00:52:45,220
opportunity no now mind you when the

1088
00:52:51,089 --> 00:52:47,079
movie first came out on video was a

1089
00:52:53,010 --> 00:52:51,099
number one requested film by a on

1090
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:53,020
military bases all around the world of

1091
00:52:57,630 --> 00:52:55,450
course it was and what so they did they

1092
00:53:01,010 --> 00:52:57,640
didn't have it at the post exchange at

1093
00:53:04,589 --> 00:53:01,020
wright-patt you couldn't rent it well

1094
00:53:08,490 --> 00:53:04,599
they may have initially but it may have

1095
00:53:11,099 --> 00:53:08,500
been quickly you know withdrawn as far

1096
00:53:12,750 --> 00:53:11,109
as from the shelves but here and and we

1097
00:53:16,740 --> 00:53:12,760
finally figured out what they were doing

1098
00:53:20,190 --> 00:53:16,750
our book was slated for release the very

1099
00:53:22,770 --> 00:53:20,200
book on wright-patterson for September

1100
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:22,780
of that year the very time that they

1101
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:25,690
wanted to display the aliens from the

1102
00:53:31,319 --> 00:53:28,240
movie and again make a mockery of it

1103
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:31,329
we're not hiding anything we're not

1104
00:53:38,130 --> 00:53:34,800
covering anything up here's the alien

1105
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:38,140
that type of situation let's take a

1106
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,240
break oh whoa let's take a break while

1107
00:53:44,430 --> 00:53:42,640
their bluff and we want let's take a

1108
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:44,440
break right here and when we come back

1109
00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:45,760
this is what we're gonna do we're gonna

1110
00:53:52,290 --> 00:53:50,110
some fun I'm going to randomly choose

1111
00:53:56,670 --> 00:53:52,300
some subjects from the book and I want

1112
00:53:58,830 --> 00:53:56,680
your color commentary please let's to it

1113
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:58,840
Todd Schmidt is our guest the book I'm

1114
00:54:02,460 --> 00:54:00,160
holding it up to the camera just

1115
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:02,470
released in paperback you opposed

1116
00:54:07,830 --> 00:54:06,130
secrets inside wright-patterson more

1117
00:54:12,030 --> 00:54:07,840
with mr. Schmidt when we come back after

1118
00:54:49,669 --> 00:54:46,720
[Music]

1119
00:54:52,049 --> 00:54:49,679
[Applause]

1120
00:54:54,059 --> 00:54:52,059
welcome back fade to black Romero semi

1121
00:54:57,059 --> 00:54:54,069
church follow me on twitter @jj Church

1122
00:55:00,089 --> 00:54:57,069
radio that's what you want to do hashtag

1123
00:55:02,669 --> 00:55:00,099
f2b is the sandbox hashtag f to be Q is

1124
00:55:05,189 --> 00:55:02,679
fade to black questions yeah you guys

1125
00:55:07,469 --> 00:55:05,199
have posted a lot of a lot of great

1126
00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:07,479
stuff here for Dom tonight I'll see if I

1127
00:55:13,140 --> 00:55:10,689
can squeeze it in hey Don are you going

1128
00:55:15,870 --> 00:55:13,150
to area 51 on September 20th did I see

1129
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:15,880
your name sign yes yes I have a campsite

1130
00:55:23,279 --> 00:55:18,880
all selected and I'm going to take my

1131
00:55:26,399 --> 00:55:23,289
telescope and I'm not you know we were

1132
00:55:29,519 --> 00:55:26,409
joking last night setting up a water

1133
00:55:31,289 --> 00:55:29,529
stand and oh that's the money that's the

1134
00:55:33,929 --> 00:55:31,299
money play right there that's the money

1135
00:55:36,269 --> 00:55:33,939
play that's a good call that's somebody

1136
00:55:38,249 --> 00:55:36,279
seriously said Don we really need to do

1137
00:55:42,529 --> 00:55:38,259
that and I'd be willing to invest the

1138
00:55:46,229 --> 00:55:42,539
money I have an RV and it's like no no

1139
00:55:48,569 --> 00:55:46,239
again you know you think back area 51

1140
00:55:50,609 --> 00:55:48,579
back in the 90s when you know those

1141
00:55:52,979 --> 00:55:50,619
former employees had that class-action

1142
00:55:55,499 --> 00:55:52,989
suit right where they claim that they

1143
00:55:57,569 --> 00:55:55,509
have been exposed to all types of toxic

1144
00:55:59,099 --> 00:55:57,579
waste and everything was coming in

1145
00:56:01,049 --> 00:55:59,109
nothing was going out that type of thing

1146
00:56:02,279 --> 00:56:01,059
if they could treat their own employees

1147
00:56:04,229 --> 00:56:02,289
like that what do you think they're

1148
00:56:07,229 --> 00:56:04,239
gonna do to a bunch of invaders that

1149
00:56:11,459 --> 00:56:07,239
would storm the gates so to speak so are

1150
00:56:12,779 --> 00:56:11,469
you surprised about the attention that

1151
00:56:14,729 --> 00:56:12,789
this has got not only from the

1152
00:56:16,409 --> 00:56:14,739
mainstream media but you've got two

1153
00:56:18,059 --> 00:56:16,419
million people that have signed up for

1154
00:56:19,759 --> 00:56:18,069
this thing and another three million

1155
00:56:23,489 --> 00:56:19,769
that are saying they're interested I

1156
00:56:26,489 --> 00:56:23,499
know but I'm trusting that of those two

1157
00:56:29,549 --> 00:56:26,499
to three million or five million that

1158
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:29,559
most of them are not within the UFO

1159
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:31,839
community they're not legitimate you

1160
00:56:37,229 --> 00:56:33,130
know researchers and investigators

1161
00:56:39,479 --> 00:56:37,239
they're not even students of the topic

1162
00:56:44,130 --> 00:56:39,489
I know it's I'd say it was at a gamer

1163
00:56:45,749 --> 00:56:44,140
who actually made the proposal initially

1164
00:56:49,019 --> 00:56:45,759
and now he's saying was morrible on a

1165
00:56:51,569 --> 00:56:49,029
lark that he never intended it to be you

1166
00:56:54,149 --> 00:56:51,579
know serious you know effort on his part

1167
00:56:54,839 --> 00:56:54,159
and it's just kind of gotten it's gotten

1168
00:56:59,749 --> 00:56:54,849
out of control

1169
00:57:02,910 --> 00:56:59,759
but it truly demonstrates the naivety of

1170
00:57:04,829 --> 00:57:02,920
people and that my god I mean

1171
00:57:08,460 --> 00:57:04,839
signs are right there for all to see

1172
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:08,470
that lethal force you know will be

1173
00:57:14,490 --> 00:57:11,440
utilized if anyone you know trespasses

1174
00:57:18,900 --> 00:57:14,500
beyond a certain point and they're not

1175
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:18,910
kidding and I think all one need do is

1176
00:57:22,620 --> 00:57:20,770
Google the area and you'll see that

1177
00:57:24,990 --> 00:57:22,630
there are no RV camps there are no

1178
00:57:28,370 --> 00:57:25,000
motels there are no restaurants there

1179
00:57:31,049 --> 00:57:28,380
there's no rest stops don't gas stations

1180
00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:31,059
they're in for a rude awakening if they

1181
00:57:36,539 --> 00:57:33,660
think that they're going to just

1182
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:36,549
nonchalantly march in and make a parade

1183
00:57:41,099 --> 00:57:38,559
out of this yeah I'm holding up to the

1184
00:57:44,940 --> 00:57:41,109
camera or one of the signs from area 51

1185
00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:44,950
that don't ask me how I got it but got

1186
00:57:49,380 --> 00:57:46,540
it right here holding it up to the

1187
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:49,390
camera you two uh it's a big sign too

1188
00:57:56,670 --> 00:57:53,530
it's it literally says use of deadly

1189
00:57:59,579 --> 00:57:56,680
force authorized and got it right here

1190
00:58:03,059 --> 00:57:59,589
well this is the other interesting part

1191
00:58:05,789 --> 00:58:03,069
though it may have started off as a joke

1192
00:58:09,180 --> 00:58:05,799
and you know a gamer in the gamer

1193
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:09,190
community okay but the interest in area

1194
00:58:14,970 --> 00:58:12,970
51 seems to be real that's that's what

1195
00:58:18,450 --> 00:58:14,980
lutely yeah that's where this thing took

1196
00:58:21,329 --> 00:58:18,460
off because this was on the back of

1197
00:58:24,180 --> 00:58:21,339
everybody's mind right it's like they

1198
00:58:25,530 --> 00:58:24,190
had a reason now because they've been

1199
00:58:27,809 --> 00:58:25,540
thinking about it for a long time

1200
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:27,819
they've heard about it and now there's

1201
00:58:31,589 --> 00:58:29,920
this I don't I don't think anybody

1202
00:58:36,270 --> 00:58:31,599
realized that that many people actually

1203
00:58:39,150 --> 00:58:36,280
knew what area 51 was but and the very

1204
00:58:42,450 --> 00:58:39,160
fact that here again we have come full

1205
00:58:44,819 --> 00:58:42,460
circle the point being that they're not

1206
00:58:47,339 --> 00:58:44,829
they're not demanding to see documents

1207
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:47,349
they're not looking to see well we want

1208
00:58:52,500 --> 00:58:49,599
to see the best pictures the best though

1209
00:58:56,099 --> 00:58:52,510
the prettiest pictures you have of UFOs

1210
00:58:58,170 --> 00:58:56,109
no they're demanding to see the physical

1211
00:59:00,299 --> 00:58:58,180
evidence they're demanding to see the

1212
00:59:05,309 --> 00:59:00,309
bodies well what are we talking about

1213
00:59:09,930 --> 00:59:05,319
all over we're talking Roswell so it I

1214
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:09,940
guess I should be at least somewhat you

1215
00:59:15,930 --> 00:59:12,640
know at least flattered complemented by

1216
00:59:16,740 --> 00:59:15,940
the fact that it doesn't go away that no

1217
00:59:18,690 --> 00:59:16,750
matter

1218
00:59:22,860 --> 00:59:18,700
often they come up with another

1219
00:59:24,860 --> 00:59:22,870
explanation for 1947 that even different

1220
00:59:29,850 --> 00:59:24,870
variations on the same balloon theme

1221
00:59:33,210 --> 00:59:29,860
that it doesn't go away that Roswell has

1222
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:33,220
become a household word around the world

1223
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:36,730
and it does not you know imply crashed

1224
00:59:43,500 --> 00:59:40,210
weather balloon it is it's exactly what

1225
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:43,510
we're seeing in the news today I mean

1226
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:46,510
Tucker Carlson every time he talks about

1227
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:48,850
this subject and no matter who he talked

1228
00:59:52,850 --> 00:59:49,330
to

1229
00:59:56,340 --> 00:59:52,860
he asks do that the government have

1230
01:00:01,130 --> 00:59:56,350
physical evidence and he actually words

1231
01:00:04,020 --> 01:00:01,140
it do they had a crashed UFO

1232
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:04,030
well again yeah we're talking Roswell

1233
01:00:11,220 --> 01:00:07,450
yeah yeah yeah yeah and in the in the

1234
01:00:13,650 --> 01:00:11,230
recent Davis Wilson leaked documents

1235
01:00:16,610 --> 01:00:13,660
there's a pretty interesting line I

1236
01:00:22,170 --> 01:00:16,620
think it's on the last page on page 15

1237
01:00:28,580 --> 01:00:22,180
which said UFO crashes and landings are

1238
01:00:32,850 --> 01:00:28,590
real abductions are not and to say

1239
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:32,860
crashes and landed craft well that says

1240
01:00:38,450 --> 01:00:35,440
two different things one is involuntary

1241
01:00:41,910 --> 01:00:38,460
all right the crash and one is not

1242
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:41,920
landed and that's that's a pretty

1243
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:45,040
telling situation that there is it is

1244
01:00:51,630 --> 01:00:47,680
but it could be also a play on words

1245
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:51,640
because even at the time of Roswell many

1246
01:00:59,070 --> 01:00:54,090
of the press accounts describe it as

1247
01:01:03,210 --> 01:00:59,080
landed and in fact even to this day many

1248
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:03,220
of the press stories on Roswell

1249
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:06,730
referred to it as the UFO had landed in

1250
01:01:12,180 --> 01:01:09,850
New Mexico landed north of Roswell that

1251
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:12,190
type of things yes there's clearly a

1252
01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:14,530
distinction between a crash and a

1253
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:18,400
landing for any of us who fly and makes

1254
01:01:26,130 --> 01:01:19,690
all the difference in the world

1255
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:26,140
but the whenever I'm asked for example

1256
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:28,210
well do you believe in abductions you

1257
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:30,160
believe in missing time experiences or

1258
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:30,370
do you

1259
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:32,170
believe in other crashes that type of

1260
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:35,170
thing and I have to always catch myself

1261
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:36,850
and that if I accept

1262
01:01:41,010 --> 01:01:38,770
Roswell then I have to accept that

1263
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:41,020
everything else is possible mm-hmm I

1264
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:43,810
just can't you know put these guidelines

1265
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:46,570
on you know these restrictions on well

1266
01:01:49,620 --> 01:01:48,130
but this is my case this is what I'm

1267
01:01:51,690 --> 01:01:49,630
working on and it automatically

1268
01:01:53,490 --> 01:01:51,700
disqualifies anything else I'm

1269
01:01:55,470 --> 01:01:53,500
threatened by anybody else's research

1270
01:01:57,930 --> 01:01:55,480
anything else somebody else is working

1271
01:02:02,040 --> 01:01:57,940
on well no that's that would be totally

1272
01:02:06,210 --> 01:02:02,050
disingenuous on my part the in the book

1273
01:02:09,570 --> 01:02:06,220
there's lots of reasons to get the book

1274
01:02:13,850 --> 01:02:09,580
and it's a lot of new information but I

1275
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:13,860
want to go directly to a couple of

1276
01:02:21,570 --> 01:02:18,370
chapters and one which it's pretty

1277
01:02:27,180 --> 01:02:21,580
amazing and you covered it before but

1278
01:02:30,150 --> 01:02:27,190
it's June crane yes June crane she's no

1279
01:02:34,170 --> 01:02:30,160
longer a she's no longer witness but who

1280
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:34,180
is June crane June crane worked at

1281
01:02:40,140 --> 01:02:36,930
wright-patterson in the early to mid

1282
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:40,150
1950s she was a secretary who work

1283
01:02:49,590 --> 01:02:45,730
specifically in document and actually

1284
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:49,600
monitoring inventory things that were

1285
01:02:56,330 --> 01:02:51,610
coming onto the base of things that were

1286
01:03:00,450 --> 01:02:56,340
going off the base and it was it was

1287
01:03:03,900 --> 01:03:00,460
some at some point that she actually saw

1288
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:03,910
reports concerning crashed saucers in

1289
01:03:09,180 --> 01:03:06,130
other words there was they were keeping

1290
01:03:14,100 --> 01:03:09,190
track obviously of such wreckage coming

1291
01:03:17,870 --> 01:03:14,110
onto the base and she recounted on a

1292
01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:17,880
number of occasions where she spoke to

1293
01:03:25,230 --> 01:03:20,980
personnel who had just arrived back at

1294
01:03:28,020 --> 01:03:25,240
the base and on one occasion one

1295
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:28,030
reference New Mexico reference what had

1296
01:03:32,820 --> 01:03:30,850
happened back in 47 referenced the fact

1297
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:32,830
that it was more than just records but

1298
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:36,010
it was also bodies and on another

1299
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:39,450
occasion June crane was actually

1300
01:03:44,039 --> 01:03:42,730
provided a piece to hold she held a

1301
01:03:46,589 --> 01:03:44,049
piece of the memory

1302
01:03:49,049 --> 01:03:46,599
Tyrael whether it was from Roswell or

1303
01:03:51,299 --> 01:03:49,059
some subsequent other you know

1304
01:03:54,029 --> 01:03:51,309
subsequent crash nonetheless she

1305
01:03:56,939 --> 01:03:54,039
described it exactly as the Roswell

1306
01:03:58,499 --> 01:03:56,949
witnesses that when you creased it you

1307
01:04:00,749 --> 01:03:58,509
crumbled it when you follow that when

1308
01:04:03,179 --> 01:04:00,759
you released your grip it returned right

1309
01:04:08,069 --> 01:04:03,189
before your eyes to its original shape

1310
01:04:10,259 --> 01:04:08,079
and size no damage whatsoever and when

1311
01:04:12,229 --> 01:04:10,269
we first interviewed we were the Kevin

1312
01:04:15,719 --> 01:04:12,239
Randle and I were the first ones to

1313
01:04:19,559 --> 01:04:15,729
interview Jayne but we majoun but we

1314
01:04:24,089 --> 01:04:19,569
used a pseudonym at her request and it

1315
01:04:26,729 --> 01:04:24,099
was then ten years later not quite but

1316
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:26,739
when the Air Force came out with the

1317
01:04:31,799 --> 01:04:28,890
aunt of her morphic wouldn't crash dummy

1318
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:31,809
explanation and that was her final straw

1319
01:04:38,219 --> 01:04:35,410
she felt that it was the last insult

1320
01:04:40,890 --> 01:04:38,229
that she was going to tolerate and she

1321
01:04:44,370 --> 01:04:40,900
went public and she stood up and she

1322
01:04:48,089 --> 01:04:44,380
used her name she had cancer at the time

1323
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:48,099
so it was enough of the lies and she

1324
01:04:53,939 --> 01:04:51,130
stepped forward and said I saw it I held

1325
01:04:56,279 --> 01:04:53,949
it in my hands I saw the documents I saw

1326
01:04:58,739 --> 01:04:56,289
the reports I spoke to the people who

1327
01:05:01,039 --> 01:04:58,749
were involved and ladies and gentlemen

1328
01:05:03,779 --> 01:05:01,049
it's true it did happen and

1329
01:05:06,359 --> 01:05:03,789
wright-patterson was the final and

1330
01:05:11,189 --> 01:05:06,369
depository of this proof that we were

1331
01:05:14,130 --> 01:05:11,199
not alone and it was the the crash don't

1332
01:05:16,979 --> 01:05:14,140
you know what that crash dummy situation

1333
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:16,989
was like one of the final straws for me

1334
01:05:23,549 --> 01:05:19,599
to when when that report came out

1335
01:05:26,130 --> 01:05:23,559
because even I and it sounds like June

1336
01:05:29,009 --> 01:05:26,140
did too but even I knew that the dates

1337
01:05:31,019 --> 01:05:29,019
were wrong right I knew that the dates

1338
01:05:34,259 --> 01:05:31,029
were wrong and I remember driving home

1339
01:05:38,189 --> 01:05:34,269
in my car five years removed five years

1340
01:05:41,249 --> 01:05:38,199
Rajic project Excelsior and high dive

1341
01:05:43,380 --> 01:05:41,259
didn't even originate until 1952 that's

1342
01:05:47,189 --> 01:05:43,390
right and then they came up with that

1343
01:05:50,339 --> 01:05:47,199
you know that concoction that is not in

1344
01:05:53,819 --> 01:05:50,349
a single medical or psychiatric journal

1345
01:05:55,829 --> 01:05:53,829
anywhere of time compression the idea

1346
01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:55,839
that as we get older we not only start

1347
01:06:00,330 --> 01:05:57,520
to confuse the years

1348
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:00,340
but also the decades while poppycock and

1349
01:06:06,359 --> 01:06:03,010
then on top of it we immediately sent a

1350
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:06,369
fax to the Pentagon at that time which

1351
01:06:12,030 --> 01:06:09,130
we inform them that just for your

1352
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:12,040
information all of the body witnesses

1353
01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:14,770
that we have interviewed concerning the

1354
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:18,190
1947 incident were no longer in New

1355
01:06:24,210 --> 01:06:21,490
Mexico in 1952 so they could not have

1356
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:24,220
been witnesses to any wooden crash

1357
01:06:30,060 --> 01:06:26,530
dummies as you would suggest

1358
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:30,070
so as the pentagon spokesperson at the

1359
01:06:33,540 --> 01:06:31,450
very end of that press conference when

1360
01:06:36,330 --> 01:06:33,550
he was asked by reporter well one of the

1361
01:06:38,370 --> 01:06:36,340
people don't believe this explanation to

1362
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:38,380
which he responded well then I guess

1363
01:06:43,830 --> 01:06:40,050
we'll be back in another few years

1364
01:06:46,830 --> 01:06:43,840
offering another explanation so it was

1365
01:06:49,530 --> 01:06:46,840
it was simply a case of running out the

1366
01:06:52,650 --> 01:06:49,540
clock stalling for time and that's all

1367
01:06:56,490 --> 01:06:52,660
they were doing did she have did June

1368
01:06:59,580 --> 01:06:56,500
have a security clearance yes she did

1369
01:07:02,090 --> 01:06:59,590
yes she did and she also said I think

1370
01:07:08,130 --> 01:07:02,100
you mentioned it in the book she signed

1371
01:07:10,830 --> 01:07:08,140
an NDA non-disclosure right and she

1372
01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:10,840
again she would comment that because she

1373
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:12,640
was dying of cancer she would comment

1374
01:07:17,460 --> 01:07:15,010
they couldn't hurt her any longer in

1375
01:07:21,930 --> 01:07:17,470
fact she even dared them to try to take

1376
01:07:26,220 --> 01:07:21,940
some action or you know some reprisal as

1377
01:07:28,500 --> 01:07:26,230
far as on her speaking out of it because

1378
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:28,510
she was calling their bluff she just

1379
01:07:35,099 --> 01:07:32,010
felt that they forced her to live with

1380
01:07:37,490 --> 01:07:35,109
news with information about the biggest

1381
01:07:40,830 --> 01:07:37,500
story you know of the millennium and

1382
01:07:45,930 --> 01:07:40,840
here she saw that she was going to die

1383
01:07:48,420 --> 01:07:45,940
with no nobody having any idea any

1384
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:48,430
awareness of what she knew to be the

1385
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:50,530
truth all that time and she was gonna

1386
01:07:55,380 --> 01:07:53,170
make sure that she had the last word how

1387
01:07:57,780 --> 01:07:55,390
many many people work at wright-patt I

1388
01:08:00,030 --> 01:07:57,790
mean you have the air force but you also

1389
01:08:01,830 --> 01:08:00,040
have all of the government civilian

1390
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:01,840
employees too as well in the support

1391
01:08:06,870 --> 01:08:03,850
system that's at wright-patt and it's a

1392
01:08:09,150 --> 01:08:06,880
big base oh yes it's like it's like a

1393
01:08:11,020 --> 01:08:09,160
small city in fact it is a city onto

1394
01:08:13,780 --> 01:08:11,030
itself in fact they have their own new

1395
01:08:14,830 --> 01:08:13,790
the reactor on the base but during World

1396
01:08:18,579 --> 01:08:14,840
War two

1397
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:18,589
it went up to almost 50,000 personnel in

1398
01:08:26,620 --> 01:08:22,730
the base and at times it has been 70 75

1399
01:08:30,550 --> 01:08:26,630
thousand so it's just II it's it's the

1400
01:08:33,550 --> 01:08:30,560
number one and in fact again the thought

1401
01:08:36,099 --> 01:08:33,560
that area 51 is this end all that it's

1402
01:08:38,829 --> 01:08:36,109
this you know the ultimate you know

1403
01:08:41,650 --> 01:08:38,839
security you know military facility in

1404
01:08:44,190 --> 01:08:41,660
the world no wright-patt still holds you

1405
01:08:46,900 --> 01:08:44,200
know that honor it is the number one

1406
01:08:49,990 --> 01:08:46,910
military facility in the world yeah it's

1407
01:08:53,230 --> 01:08:50,000
pretty massive it's pretty massive now

1408
01:08:55,660 --> 01:08:53,240
when you have that many not only Air

1409
01:08:57,970 --> 01:08:55,670
Force personnel but civilian employees

1410
01:08:59,920 --> 01:08:57,980
that are government employees but that

1411
01:09:02,920 --> 01:08:59,930
are not active Air Force personnel on

1412
01:09:07,329 --> 01:09:02,930
the base it's impossible to keep

1413
01:09:11,170 --> 01:09:07,339
everybody quiet now there are you have

1414
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:11,180
the the patriotic duty as a citizen to

1415
01:09:15,250 --> 01:09:12,290
keep your mouth shut

1416
01:09:17,950 --> 01:09:15,260
that's part of working for the military

1417
01:09:20,380 --> 01:09:17,960
and I respect that but then there's the

1418
01:09:23,140 --> 01:09:20,390
other side of it where it is impossible

1419
01:09:26,020 --> 01:09:23,150
to keep everybody quiet forever

1420
01:09:28,329 --> 01:09:26,030
is she the fourth is she the first of

1421
01:09:31,570 --> 01:09:28,339
many that could be coming forward and at

1422
01:09:35,470 --> 01:09:31,580
some point where aliens are not

1423
01:09:38,770 --> 01:09:35,480
necessarily a security or a military

1424
01:09:43,900 --> 01:09:38,780
situation but it's a humanity you know

1425
01:09:46,690 --> 01:09:43,910
story here it you know where the the the

1426
01:09:49,270 --> 01:09:46,700
the mind is gonna change on your

1427
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:49,280
position on this is she the first of

1428
01:09:53,050 --> 01:09:51,049
many that will be coming forward what do

1429
01:09:56,500 --> 01:09:53,060
you think I would certainly like to

1430
01:09:59,290 --> 01:09:56,510
believe so and though we named a good

1431
01:10:02,050 --> 01:09:59,300
number of a former wright-patt personnel

1432
01:10:06,010 --> 01:10:02,060
both military and civilian and certainly

1433
01:10:08,770 --> 01:10:06,020
one of our our star witnesses who

1434
01:10:12,460 --> 01:10:08,780
happened to be at t2 which would become

1435
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:12,470
foreign technology division in 1961 was

1436
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:14,960
the late Arthur Exxon General Arthur

1437
01:10:22,750 --> 01:10:19,250
exon he was at the base when the Roswell

1438
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:22,760
material first arrived and Gaye was a

1439
01:10:26,950 --> 01:10:24,410
full account of what he

1440
01:10:29,770 --> 01:10:26,960
learned as far as the testing on that

1441
01:10:32,950 --> 01:10:29,780
wreckage at that at that time and then

1442
01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:32,960
in 1964 he was the base commander at

1443
01:10:38,050 --> 01:10:35,840
wright-patt and even as the base

1444
01:10:40,990 --> 01:10:38,060
commander he described to us that there

1445
01:10:42,190 --> 01:10:41,000
were entire areas of the base that were

1446
01:10:46,450 --> 01:10:42,200
off-limits

1447
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:46,460
even to him as the base commander and so

1448
01:10:53,260 --> 01:10:49,850
that just fueled more and more of the

1449
01:10:56,110 --> 01:10:53,270
the the storyline of these multi

1450
01:10:59,800 --> 01:10:56,120
multiple levels the subterranean levels

1451
01:11:03,160 --> 01:10:59,810
and we've heard as many as 10 10 levels

1452
01:11:06,790 --> 01:11:03,170
beneath the surface on these huge

1453
01:11:10,090 --> 01:11:06,800
hangars and vaults and storage areas and

1454
01:11:13,660 --> 01:11:10,100
and secret places that even the base

1455
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:13,670
commander didn't have access to and we

1456
01:11:19,810 --> 01:11:16,730
our good friend Ben Hanson formerly with

1457
01:11:23,650 --> 01:11:19,820
the FBI and then did the sci-fi channel

1458
01:11:30,190 --> 01:11:23,660
fact or faked TV series and his very

1459
01:11:34,570 --> 01:11:30,200
grand father was a civil engineer and he

1460
01:11:36,850 --> 01:11:34,580
was he was on T W Y as far as they was

1461
01:11:40,660 --> 01:11:36,860
on temporary duty at wright-patt for a

1462
01:11:44,620 --> 01:11:40,670
number of summers and his assignment was

1463
01:11:46,630 --> 01:11:44,630
to service the elevators that ran to

1464
01:11:51,610 --> 01:11:46,640
these multiple levels beneath the

1465
01:11:55,570 --> 01:11:51,620
surface and before he died all he would

1466
01:11:56,830 --> 01:11:55,580
admit was we are not alone that's what

1467
01:12:00,360 --> 01:11:56,840
he told Ben's father

1468
01:12:04,930 --> 01:12:00,370
based on what he supposedly saw or heard

1469
01:12:07,150 --> 01:12:04,940
at wright-patt but nonetheless he was a

1470
01:12:12,670 --> 01:12:07,160
witness to the fact that they are these

1471
01:12:16,140 --> 01:12:12,680
these sub levels that so much of our

1472
01:12:20,050 --> 01:12:16,150
history and especially our UFO history

1473
01:12:24,070 --> 01:12:20,060
has been hidden away has been part of

1474
01:12:27,010 --> 01:12:24,080
this underground vault and I'd like to

1475
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:27,020
believe that this book exposes much of

1476
01:12:35,860 --> 01:12:29,930
that based on the testimony of a lot of

1477
01:12:37,890 --> 01:12:35,870
these former personnel if you if you

1478
01:12:42,939 --> 01:12:37,900
were given a choice

1479
01:12:46,569 --> 01:12:42,949
to take the full tour of area 51 or you

1480
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:46,579
get the full tour of wright-patt where

1481
01:12:51,279 --> 01:12:47,679
do you go

1482
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:51,289
51 yeah you got to do from all yeah from

1483
01:12:56,649 --> 01:12:54,050
all of the all of our sources from all

1484
01:12:59,770 --> 01:12:56,659
the information including a former

1485
01:13:03,069 --> 01:12:59,780
deputy commander on the base just about

1486
01:13:06,430 --> 01:13:03,079
everything if not everything was cleared

1487
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:06,440
out of right path in the early 80s we

1488
01:13:11,350 --> 01:13:08,690
had a full-bird colonel made the comment

1489
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:11,360
to us that as he put it they were having

1490
01:13:15,759 --> 01:13:14,090
a hell of a time being in the heart of

1491
01:13:19,149 --> 01:13:15,769
Dayton Ohio I mean they're right in the

1492
01:13:21,129 --> 01:13:19,159
middle of a city there yep and it just

1493
01:13:22,959 --> 01:13:21,139
didn't make any sense any longer so

1494
01:13:26,500 --> 01:13:22,969
little by little they were shipping

1495
01:13:29,140 --> 01:13:26,510
things out and obviously the most viable

1496
01:13:31,180 --> 01:13:29,150
the most logical place would be

1497
01:13:33,490 --> 01:13:31,190
someplace you know out in the desert

1498
01:13:37,209 --> 01:13:33,500
someplace out in the mountains and what

1499
01:13:39,370 --> 01:13:37,219
are we describing Groom Lake well the

1500
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:39,380
same the same statements have been made

1501
01:13:44,169 --> 01:13:42,289
about area 51 that it's the ever is

1502
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:44,179
blown and everything's been shipped out

1503
01:13:53,290 --> 01:13:49,090
and is now at wright-patt B which well

1504
01:13:55,390 --> 01:13:53,300
no no I was I wouldn't believe things

1505
01:13:57,879 --> 01:13:55,400
went back the right path that would make

1506
01:14:01,450 --> 01:13:57,889
no sense at all for having been on the

1507
01:14:05,049 --> 01:14:01,460
base and again it is in the middle of

1508
01:14:08,220 --> 01:14:05,059
Dayton Ohio and that would make no sense

1509
01:14:12,459 --> 01:14:08,230
at all now we have heard for example

1510
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:12,469
during that that the class-action suit

1511
01:14:20,370 --> 01:14:16,610
against 51 back in the 90s that much of

1512
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:20,380
the activity was shifted to area 52

1513
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:24,320
which is Utah Dugway yes

1514
01:14:30,430 --> 01:14:27,650
Doug wait yes and what what we also

1515
01:14:34,029 --> 01:14:30,440
described in the book is that we have a

1516
01:14:38,890 --> 01:14:34,039
first-hand retired colonel in the late

1517
01:14:42,839 --> 01:14:38,900
50s who testified that he saw one of the

1518
01:14:45,879 --> 01:14:42,849
bodies didn't know you know of what

1519
01:14:48,430 --> 01:14:45,889
event what is you know how it was

1520
01:14:51,580 --> 01:14:48,440
recovered what did involved but then he

1521
01:14:55,990 --> 01:14:51,590
saw a cadaver not human

1522
01:14:58,900 --> 01:14:56,000
at Dugway in the late 50s and then we

1523
01:15:02,410 --> 01:14:58,910
tie that in with the story of the late

1524
01:15:03,430 --> 01:15:02,420
Colonel George Weinbrenner who happened

1525
01:15:07,390 --> 01:15:03,440
to be a Hynix

1526
01:15:09,340 --> 01:15:07,400
last boss at right path and Weinbrenner

1527
01:15:12,580 --> 01:15:09,350
was a head of the foreign technology

1528
01:15:16,060 --> 01:15:12,590
division which did all the reverse

1529
01:15:19,330 --> 01:15:16,070
engineering whenever they had recovered

1530
01:15:21,820 --> 01:15:19,340
big or a german messerschmitt or

1531
01:15:25,630 --> 01:15:21,830
anything that they wanted to see how it

1532
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:25,640
flew how it ticked and that's how even

1533
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:28,010
the Operation Paperclip with the German

1534
01:15:33,850 --> 01:15:31,010
and the Nazi scientists were often

1535
01:15:37,900 --> 01:15:33,860
utilized and they spent a good amount of

1536
01:15:39,820 --> 01:15:37,910
their time at wright-patt but so the

1537
01:15:44,170 --> 01:15:39,830
point being that whatever happened in

1538
01:15:46,300 --> 01:15:44,180
Roswell it also went to wright-patt so

1539
01:15:48,730 --> 01:15:46,310
it went to foreign technology in an

1540
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:48,740
attempt to reverse engineer and find out

1541
01:15:54,790 --> 01:15:51,530
how it flew so to speak but Weinbrenner

1542
01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:54,800
hynek's last boss at foreign technology

1543
01:16:00,450 --> 01:15:58,640
before he died he sent a message to

1544
01:16:04,420 --> 01:16:00,460
robert EMA

1545
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:04,430
personal friend Emma Nagar who wrote the

1546
01:16:11,260 --> 01:16:07,970
book ufos past president future and he

1547
01:16:14,980 --> 01:16:11,270
had been contracted in the mid-70s to do

1548
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:14,990
a documentary for the air force and his

1549
01:16:22,270 --> 01:16:18,650
main contact was george Weinbrenner at

1550
01:16:24,850 --> 01:16:22,280
wright-patt and the story is that

1551
01:16:29,050 --> 01:16:24,860
Weinbrenner before he died sent a

1552
01:16:34,660 --> 01:16:29,060
personal note to emma which read

1553
01:16:37,300 --> 01:16:34,670
george we have five bodies in Utah hmm

1554
01:16:39,340 --> 01:16:37,310
well we know what t we know what he was

1555
01:16:44,230 --> 01:16:39,350
talking about and he was referencing

1556
01:16:47,770 --> 01:16:44,240
Dudley so then the last time I had

1557
01:16:49,650 --> 01:16:47,780
dinner with Colonel Robert friend our

1558
01:16:52,030 --> 01:16:49,660
friend just passed away a few months ago

1559
01:16:55,450 --> 01:16:52,040
but I had dinner with him on one

1560
01:16:57,460 --> 01:16:55,460
occasion in Los Angeles and I asked him

1561
01:17:01,330 --> 01:16:57,470
point-blank right to his face I said

1562
01:17:05,410 --> 01:17:01,340
colonel if you did have bodies now now

1563
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:05,420
friend was the second-last director of a

1564
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:09,530
Project Blue Book so he was still very

1565
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:11,690
skeptical very coy he didn't want to

1566
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:13,970
admit anything and I kept pressing him

1567
01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:16,130
and I finally said Colonel if you did

1568
01:17:20,410 --> 01:17:16,880
have bodies

1569
01:17:22,510 --> 01:17:20,420
if Roswell did happen if you had bodies

1570
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:22,520
and you had to preserve them where would

1571
01:17:26,830 --> 01:17:25,250
they be today and he without hesitation

1572
01:17:29,140 --> 01:17:26,840
he went why of course

1573
01:17:32,310 --> 01:17:29,150
Dugway biological medical research

1574
01:17:37,690 --> 01:17:32,320
facility that's where they would be

1575
01:17:41,050 --> 01:17:37,700
interesting so they would so the point

1576
01:17:43,540 --> 01:17:41,060
being it wouldn't be right pat if things

1577
01:17:46,930 --> 01:17:43,550
have been moved out of groom lake out of

1578
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:46,940
51 that is where we're focusing right

1579
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:51,290
now area 52 Dugway in Utah well with the

1580
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:53,930
backwards engineering which would have

1581
01:18:00,340 --> 01:17:56,480
to take place with with any type of

1582
01:18:02,710 --> 01:18:00,350
technology like this the that reverse

1583
01:18:06,610 --> 01:18:02,720
engineering was happening at wright-patt

1584
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:06,620
and then tested at area 51 they wouldn't

1585
01:18:11,590 --> 01:18:09,410
test it in Dayton and of course I'm you

1586
01:18:14,290 --> 01:18:11,600
know reverencing bob lazar and the

1587
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:14,300
things that he had I've seen it at s4 is

1588
01:18:20,830 --> 01:18:17,440
is that the way it would have gone down

1589
01:18:23,590 --> 01:18:20,840
I'm still very skeptical and in fact I

1590
01:18:26,620 --> 01:18:23,600
still maintain the position Jeremy that

1591
01:18:28,780 --> 01:18:26,630
it's a cover-up of ignorant that after

1592
01:18:31,780 --> 01:18:28,790
all these years they still can't find me

1593
01:18:34,330 --> 01:18:31,790
on button so to speak I think it's base

1594
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:34,340
it's partly you know human arrogance

1595
01:18:39,190 --> 01:18:36,170
that we think we can bridge the

1596
01:18:41,020 --> 01:18:39,200
technology sure that if you know

1597
01:18:43,330 --> 01:18:41,030
different than sending a television back

1598
01:18:45,130 --> 01:18:43,340
to the Middle Ages and yeah I'm sure

1599
01:18:47,230 --> 01:18:45,140
they could figure it out of course they

1600
01:18:49,210 --> 01:18:47,240
couldn't know they could and and the

1601
01:18:51,850 --> 01:18:49,220
very thought that we've been able to

1602
01:18:54,460 --> 01:18:51,860
reverse-engineer something that maybe

1603
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:54,470
you know simply a hundred years ahead of

1604
01:18:59,620 --> 01:18:56,210
us

1605
01:19:02,620 --> 01:18:59,630
no that's possible but I find it I find

1606
01:19:04,660 --> 01:19:02,630
it unlikely because here you have these

1607
01:19:07,180 --> 01:19:04,670
Navy pilots and as I have often

1608
01:19:10,450 --> 01:19:07,190
encountered and talking to sac officers

1609
01:19:14,170 --> 01:19:10,460
and pilots all over the country they are

1610
01:19:18,130 --> 01:19:14,180
still in all of this technology they are

1611
01:19:19,030 --> 01:19:18,140
still behaving as though my god these

1612
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:19,040
things are

1613
01:19:26,890 --> 01:19:22,850
find the laws of physics how can they do

1614
01:19:29,260 --> 01:19:26,900
that well it's it's a very easy way to

1615
01:19:31,420 --> 01:19:29,270
look at it and to demonstrate and it's

1616
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:31,430
like this Don you know what a cellphone

1617
01:19:37,480 --> 01:19:34,330
is I've seen your flip phone okay so you

1618
01:19:41,290 --> 01:19:37,490
know no no I got rid of that it's all

1619
01:19:45,700 --> 01:19:41,300
yours you guys know how chic that is

1620
01:19:51,420 --> 01:19:45,710
today they have that that Don's yeah but

1621
01:19:56,590 --> 01:19:51,430
you and I and an engineer from Apple and

1622
01:20:00,310 --> 01:19:56,600
50 other design engineers right and

1623
01:20:04,180 --> 01:20:00,320
software engineers if we all are on a

1624
01:20:06,700 --> 01:20:04,190
desert island right no means of

1625
01:20:09,130 --> 01:20:06,710
production right but we have the

1626
01:20:11,410 --> 01:20:09,140
knowledge that doesn't mean we're gonna

1627
01:20:15,130 --> 01:20:11,420
be able to produce iPhones the next day

1628
01:20:18,100 --> 01:20:15,140
as a matter of fact you would never see

1629
01:20:20,890 --> 01:20:18,110
an iPhone on that desert island because

1630
01:20:22,930 --> 01:20:20,900
we may know what they are but the means

1631
01:20:25,450 --> 01:20:22,940
of production or how to get it done

1632
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:25,460
that's something else and that's where

1633
01:20:31,690 --> 01:20:28,880
society is today is an overlapping of

1634
01:20:34,690 --> 01:20:31,700
building on the past but just because

1635
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:34,700
you have the idea of a flying saucer and

1636
01:20:39,220 --> 01:20:36,890
the propulsion system doesn't mean you

1637
01:20:41,490 --> 01:20:39,230
know how it ticks or that you're gonna

1638
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:41,500
be able to build one or that it's gonna

1639
01:20:47,230 --> 01:20:44,210
you know what I mean it's it's not that

1640
01:20:50,500 --> 01:20:47,240
Corey exactly in fact I'll cite the

1641
01:20:53,110 --> 01:20:50,510
example he was a flight engineer he was

1642
01:20:56,710 --> 01:20:53,120
with the three 93rd Bomb Group at

1643
01:21:01,660 --> 01:20:56,720
Roswell in 1947 the late Sergeant

1644
01:21:04,780 --> 01:21:01,670
William Ennis and they were in charge of

1645
01:21:06,730 --> 01:21:04,790
the b-29s the silver plates and he would

1646
01:21:09,070 --> 01:21:06,740
put it we could take them apart down to

1647
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:09,080
the last rivet and put them back

1648
01:21:14,740 --> 01:21:11,570
together again that's what they did and

1649
01:21:17,860 --> 01:21:14,750
he talked about what happened he talked

1650
01:21:21,820 --> 01:21:17,870
about when they first saw the remains of

1651
01:21:24,850 --> 01:21:21,830
the crash and he went gone before I go

1652
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:24,860
you got to find out how that damn thing

1653
01:21:31,450 --> 01:21:28,330
flew it didn't have a moving part on it

1654
01:21:32,770 --> 01:21:31,460
so what do you reverse engineer yeah

1655
01:21:34,390 --> 01:21:32,780
example of what

1656
01:21:36,850 --> 01:21:34,400
thing flu whatever it was thought

1657
01:21:38,890 --> 01:21:36,860
projection one of the memory material

1658
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:38,900
was the propulsion the very idea you

1659
01:21:43,510 --> 01:21:41,090
know you could climb into this into the

1660
01:21:45,850 --> 01:21:43,520
seat and you you just tell us you know

1661
01:21:48,279 --> 01:21:45,860
you just you know projected you know

1662
01:21:51,729 --> 01:21:48,289
your mind as far as what you wanted to

1663
01:21:55,060 --> 01:21:51,739
do how do you reverse engineer that you

1664
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:55,070
can't you can't you simply can is it

1665
01:21:59,260 --> 01:21:57,170
would just sit there on the tarmac let's

1666
01:22:01,299 --> 01:21:59,270
uh let's take a quick break our guest

1667
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:01,309
tonight dodge Schmitt we're talking

1668
01:22:05,020 --> 01:22:03,170
about his book just released in

1669
01:22:07,330 --> 01:22:05,030
paperback UFO secrets inside

1670
01:22:09,220 --> 01:22:07,340
wright-patterson we'll be right back

1671
01:22:11,549 --> 01:22:09,230
after this short break this is fade to

1672
01:22:14,580 --> 01:22:11,559
black on the game changer network and

1673
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:14,590
kgr a the planet stay with us

1674
01:22:28,990 --> 01:22:26,650
[Music]

1675
01:22:31,660 --> 01:22:29,000
welcome back pay the black I'm Jimmy

1676
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:31,670
Church email is Jimmy Jimmy Church radio

1677
01:22:38,650 --> 01:22:36,650
calm you can get Don's paperback view of

1678
01:22:40,330 --> 01:22:38,660
both secrets inside right Pat right now

1679
01:22:42,820 --> 01:22:40,340
at Amazon we've got the links over at

1680
01:22:46,180 --> 01:22:42,830
Jimmy Church radio calm it's a great

1681
01:22:48,190 --> 01:22:46,190
read and and Don here we go are you

1682
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:48,200
ready I'm ready

1683
01:22:54,010 --> 01:22:50,330
I just got I just gotta I just gotta

1684
01:23:00,730 --> 01:22:54,020
hear you share this the fighter ace

1685
01:23:05,710 --> 01:23:00,740
meets something squiggly Colonel Marion

1686
01:23:11,050 --> 01:23:05,720
Magruder he was War College class of 47

1687
01:23:13,480 --> 01:23:11,060
48 and as the War College goes these are

1688
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:13,490
high-ranking lieutenant colonel is the

1689
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:16,610
lowest rank but they're all being

1690
01:23:24,130 --> 01:23:20,090
schooled as far as in mainly foreign

1691
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:24,140
intelligence and then public relations

1692
01:23:37,330 --> 01:23:31,280
as to essentially creating impressions

1693
01:23:40,390 --> 01:23:37,340
and propaganda and topics that you know

1694
01:23:45,190 --> 01:23:40,400
are very sensitive and you know creating

1695
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:45,200
a human perspective whether on the

1696
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:47,330
american front or on a foreign front so

1697
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:48,770
that's what they're being schooled in

1698
01:23:58,890 --> 01:23:53,810
basically public relations so McGruder

1699
01:24:03,880 --> 01:23:58,900
was a triple ace World War two so highly

1700
01:24:06,820 --> 01:24:03,890
highly awarded highly respected member

1701
01:24:10,150 --> 01:24:06,830
of the War College and he's died of

1702
01:24:14,260 --> 01:24:10,160
cancer in 1995 and one by one he

1703
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:14,270
confides to his five sons that he was

1704
01:24:22,650 --> 01:24:17,690
with the War College and at some point

1705
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:22,660
they were taken to wright-patterson and

1706
01:24:30,340 --> 01:24:27,170
they had a whole series of projects but

1707
01:24:33,940 --> 01:24:30,350
one of them involve going into a room

1708
01:24:36,250 --> 01:24:33,950
and having some wreckage some metallic

1709
01:24:37,870 --> 01:24:36,260
material passed around that they were

1710
01:24:38,830 --> 01:24:37,880
able to handle that they were able to he

1711
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:38,840
examined

1712
01:24:43,150 --> 01:24:41,210
and they were asked for their opinions

1713
01:24:46,330 --> 01:24:43,160
they were asked on what do you make of

1714
01:24:48,670 --> 01:24:46,340
this what do you think of this and it

1715
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:48,680
was against some of the memory material

1716
01:24:54,850 --> 01:24:51,170
this material that right before your

1717
01:24:57,670 --> 01:24:54,860
eyes it was like it was alive you could

1718
01:24:59,890 --> 01:24:57,680
manipulate it you it was malleable you

1719
01:25:02,410 --> 01:24:59,900
could twist it you could crunch it fold

1720
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:02,420
it and yet it would always return back

1721
01:25:05,950 --> 01:25:05,210
to its original shape and size right

1722
01:25:08,230 --> 01:25:05,960
before your eyes

1723
01:25:12,370 --> 01:25:08,240
and then he would describe that they

1724
01:25:15,490 --> 01:25:12,380
were taken into another room and they

1725
01:25:18,370 --> 01:25:15,500
immediately saw that what was in this

1726
01:25:23,500 --> 01:25:18,380
glass enclosure this other the separated

1727
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:23,510
room was not human the stories were true

1728
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:25,570
the rumors were true

1729
01:25:32,370 --> 01:25:28,130
and they were it was explained to them

1730
01:25:37,690 --> 01:25:32,380
that it was the survivor from Roswell

1731
01:25:40,690 --> 01:25:37,700
and he felt great pity for what he saw

1732
01:25:43,870 --> 01:25:40,700
but he felt as though that it was almost

1733
01:25:47,830 --> 01:25:43,880
imprisoned that it was a laboratory

1734
01:25:51,220 --> 01:25:47,840
animal so to speak and what they were

1735
01:25:52,750 --> 01:25:51,230
all doing to it and when he was asked

1736
01:25:55,500 --> 01:25:52,760
well how did it look or what did they

1737
01:25:59,080 --> 01:25:55,510
call it and he used the word squiggly

1738
01:26:02,530 --> 01:25:59,090
that it was a very spindly body and it

1739
01:26:04,420 --> 01:26:02,540
was ashen gray as far as its skin tone

1740
01:26:07,300 --> 01:26:04,430
that type of thing and then he would

1741
01:26:11,130 --> 01:26:07,310
hear that it died a short time

1742
01:26:16,090 --> 01:26:11,140
thereafter as a result of all of their

1743
01:26:19,420 --> 01:26:16,100
experiments and testing and work as far

1744
01:26:22,870 --> 01:26:19,430
as odd on a survivor and then we

1745
01:26:28,300 --> 01:26:22,880
verified that McGruder had actually been

1746
01:26:30,070 --> 01:26:28,310
stationed in April of 1948 and he was at

1747
01:26:34,300 --> 01:26:30,080
wright-patt we found the documents he

1748
01:26:38,710 --> 01:26:34,310
was there in April of 48 so it confirmed

1749
01:26:42,790 --> 01:26:38,720
at least his being assigned to the base

1750
01:26:46,090 --> 01:26:42,800
as part of the War College in April 48

1751
01:26:50,130 --> 01:26:46,100
and then his deathbed testimony to his

1752
01:26:52,380 --> 01:26:50,140
sons each were told the exact same

1753
01:26:56,820 --> 01:26:52,390
account same scenario

1754
01:26:58,620 --> 01:26:56,830
but it it's further confirmed the the

1755
01:27:00,660 --> 01:26:58,630
eyewitness testimony that we've had

1756
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:00,670
regarding Roswell whether civilian

1757
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:03,520
whether the fire department whether the

1758
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:06,130
the Sheriff's Department or whether the

1759
01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:09,610
personnel on the base the the the base

1760
01:27:16,910 --> 01:27:12,490
hospital had Roswell that there was a

1761
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:16,920
lone survivor a result of the crash I

1762
01:27:26,300 --> 01:27:20,400
want to go through I want to set this up

1763
01:27:30,420 --> 01:27:26,310
really quick what was project sign

1764
01:27:35,310 --> 01:27:30,430
project sign was the very first official

1765
01:27:37,830 --> 01:27:35,320
UFO investigation originating in 1948

1766
01:27:40,950 --> 01:27:37,840
right after Roswell within months after

1767
01:27:44,490 --> 01:27:40,960
Roswell General Lawrence Craig II who

1768
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:44,500
had sent a representative by the name of

1769
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:49,450
Ben games he was his aide who went to

1770
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:52,210
Roswell to represent the general and

1771
01:27:58,530 --> 01:27:54,610
then returned and gave him a full

1772
01:28:02,310 --> 01:27:58,540
account and according to games it is a

1773
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:02,320
null I mean what the general did with

1774
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:04,810
the information but it was not about a

1775
01:28:11,480 --> 01:28:07,810
weather balloon recovery and Craig II

1776
01:28:14,010 --> 01:28:11,490
then was the one who made the

1777
01:28:19,850 --> 01:28:14,020
recommendation and then signed the very

1778
01:28:24,900 --> 01:28:19,860
papers that initiated project sign its

1779
01:28:29,330 --> 01:28:24,910
classification was not top secret but it

1780
01:28:33,630 --> 01:28:29,340
was more mid grade to secret at the time

1781
01:28:37,770 --> 01:28:33,640
but what we need to point out is that at

1782
01:28:41,550 --> 01:28:37,780
the end of 49 when they released the

1783
01:28:45,540 --> 01:28:41,560
report and it went up the the chain of

1784
01:28:49,830 --> 01:28:45,550
command to then Secretary of the Air

1785
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:49,840
Force general Hoyt Vandenberg he ordered

1786
01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:54,010
the report burned destroyed that was the

1787
01:28:59,790 --> 01:28:56,530
unit itself is illegal that was the

1788
01:29:02,100 --> 01:28:59,800
estimate of the situation right no that

1789
01:29:04,740 --> 01:29:02,110
was part of it estimate of situation was

1790
01:29:06,180 --> 01:29:04,750
a preliminary report that we've never

1791
01:29:09,810 --> 01:29:06,190
seen we

1792
01:29:14,420 --> 01:29:09,820
we've had some carrots you know dangled

1793
01:29:18,630 --> 01:29:14,430
at times that a page or two has been

1794
01:29:22,500 --> 01:29:18,640
discovered in someone's files but the

1795
01:29:26,430 --> 01:29:22,510
estimates supposedly was either

1796
01:29:27,090 --> 01:29:26,440
destroyed or hidden away never to be

1797
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:27,100
seen again

1798
01:29:30,930 --> 01:29:29,050
but it was project sign that was

1799
01:29:33,990 --> 01:29:30,940
actually ordered by Vandenberg to be

1800
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:34,000
destroyed he would use the argument that

1801
01:29:40,860 --> 01:29:37,840
it did not provide enough physical

1802
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:40,870
evidence but one of the things and

1803
01:29:47,430 --> 01:29:44,290
checking-in Vandenberg's background he

1804
01:29:50,460 --> 01:29:47,440
was very concerned about panic in fact

1805
01:29:52,740 --> 01:29:50,470
he talked on a number of occasions about

1806
01:29:54,990 --> 01:29:52,750
the War of the Worlds radio broadcast

1807
01:29:57,630 --> 01:29:55,000
that he was concerned that we would

1808
01:29:59,370 --> 01:29:57,640
actually have that very reaction on the

1809
01:30:03,210 --> 01:29:59,380
part of the public and then we have a

1810
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:03,220
project grudge and interesting that it

1811
01:30:08,250 --> 01:30:05,610
would even have that very name crunch

1812
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:08,260
where they cleared away almost all of

1813
01:30:16,430 --> 01:30:13,210
the Pro et consultants investigators

1814
01:30:19,940 --> 01:30:16,440
with sine replace them all with

1815
01:30:23,190 --> 01:30:19,950
hard-line skeptics the bunkers and

1816
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:23,200
project grudges then final conclusion

1817
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:26,050
that this was mass hysteria mass

1818
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:29,770
hallucination and it goes from project

1819
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:31,690
that is semantic it goes in project

1820
01:30:36,950 --> 01:30:34,570
signs final summation that we were

1821
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:36,960
dealing with an interplanetary

1822
01:30:41,460 --> 01:30:39,370
phenomenon that we were dealing with

1823
01:30:44,370 --> 01:30:41,470
something manufactured off the planet

1824
01:30:48,770 --> 01:30:44,380
that was project signs final conclusion

1825
01:30:52,590 --> 01:30:48,780
and from that the project grudge

1826
01:30:56,280 --> 01:30:52,600
dismissing it all away as being just

1827
01:30:58,680 --> 01:30:56,290
part of the silly season all media

1828
01:31:01,410 --> 01:30:58,690
induced and that there was nothing there

1829
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:01,420
was no actual phenomenon and that was

1830
01:31:11,910 --> 01:31:05,410
even you know xperia by the by the

1831
01:31:16,770 --> 01:31:11,920
general public and then we have project

1832
01:31:18,750 --> 01:31:16,780
stork in Blue Book no well hold on hold

1833
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:18,760
on I don't get it you don't get ahead of

1834
01:31:24,530 --> 01:31:20,130
your schemes young

1835
01:31:28,649 --> 01:31:24,540
we'll get ahead of your skis because

1836
01:31:31,609 --> 01:31:28,659
we've those that have researched the

1837
01:31:35,609 --> 01:31:31,619
subject are somewhat familiar with

1838
01:31:37,830 --> 01:31:35,619
project sign and how one went into the

1839
01:31:43,530 --> 01:31:37,840
other and then and and I think that

1840
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:43,540
urban legend is that project sign turned

1841
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:45,810
into grudge which turned into blue book

1842
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:51,010
okay we can go with that but I have

1843
01:31:57,330 --> 01:31:53,050
never heard of project stork

1844
01:32:02,070 --> 01:31:57,340
not until this book yeah I'm what was

1845
01:32:06,149 --> 01:32:02,080
project stork project stork was at the

1846
01:32:09,540 --> 01:32:06,159
tail end of grudge and then it went into

1847
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:09,550
because Captain Edward ruppelt was just

1848
01:32:15,990 --> 01:32:14,050
coming into play at the time in fact the

1849
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:16,000
reason and you describe it accurately

1850
01:32:23,550 --> 01:32:19,770
Jimmy in effect that grudge morphed into

1851
01:32:27,149 --> 01:32:23,560
blue books and the point being that with

1852
01:32:31,290 --> 01:32:27,159
the newly appointed director Captain

1853
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:31,300
Edward ruppelt with Hynek still as the

1854
01:32:36,689 --> 01:32:33,489
scientific consultant that they were

1855
01:32:39,570 --> 01:32:36,699
going to completely reverse course and

1856
01:32:42,180 --> 01:32:39,580
they were going to approach this sign

1857
01:32:47,839 --> 01:32:42,190
typically they were going to come up

1858
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:47,849
with some resolution within a year and

1859
01:32:54,689 --> 01:32:50,530
one of the first things that both

1860
01:32:59,970 --> 01:32:54,699
repelled and Hynek then advised and

1861
01:33:03,839 --> 01:32:59,980
encouraged was a systematic study of the

1862
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:03,849
data and they weren't the air force

1863
01:33:11,459 --> 01:33:07,570
wasn't going to do it soul project stork

1864
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:11,469
was contracted out to Battelle Institute

1865
01:33:19,470 --> 01:33:15,810
just down the road in Columbus Ohio and

1866
01:33:22,470 --> 01:33:19,480
they did the statistical analysis and

1867
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:22,480
it's where a Hynek demonstrated that the

1868
01:33:31,979 --> 01:33:27,130
more data they had the better the cases

1869
01:33:33,450 --> 01:33:31,989
I mean the the the media the skeptics

1870
01:33:36,270 --> 01:33:33,460
were always

1871
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:36,280
riding this this impression that well

1872
01:33:40,950 --> 01:33:38,770
when the more information we have the

1873
01:33:43,850 --> 01:33:40,960
easier it is to explain away know it was

1874
01:33:47,850 --> 01:33:43,860
the exact opposite and that's what stork

1875
01:33:51,170 --> 01:33:47,860
demonstrated in fact stork demonstrated

1876
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:51,180
that almost 25 percent of the cases they

1877
01:33:57,600 --> 01:33:55,690
investigated were unexplainable and that

1878
01:34:00,180 --> 01:33:57,610
was another reason that we haven't heard

1879
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:00,190
about stork because they were making

1880
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:01,210
progress

1881
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:04,210
it was an actual scientific

1882
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:07,090
investigation of the reports that were

1883
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:09,610
coming in and again the air force that

1884
01:34:15,540 --> 01:34:13,090
was not their assignment blue book as we

1885
01:34:20,150 --> 01:34:15,550
then would quickly see became a public

1886
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:20,160
relations front they had no intention of

1887
01:34:27,229 --> 01:34:22,210
conducting alleged legitimate

1888
01:34:32,910 --> 01:34:27,239
investigation of the UFO phenomenon the

1889
01:34:39,930 --> 01:34:32,920
the doubt when when blue book started to

1890
01:34:44,030 --> 01:34:39,940
come to its end the impression that the

1891
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:44,040
world had and the UFO community was that

1892
01:34:49,260 --> 01:34:47,410
the Air Force says we're done there's

1893
01:34:51,620 --> 01:34:49,270
nothing to this we're not going to fund

1894
01:34:55,140 --> 01:34:51,630
this anymore Project Blue Book is closed

1895
01:34:57,630 --> 01:34:55,150
what's the real reason for stopping what

1896
01:35:00,360 --> 01:34:57,640
was the real reason for the downfall of

1897
01:35:02,910 --> 01:35:00,370
a Project Blue Book well first of all

1898
01:35:07,080 --> 01:35:02,920
they needed a scapegoat and that was

1899
01:35:10,260 --> 01:35:07,090
when they hired as far as Washington

1900
01:35:14,790 --> 01:35:10,270
actually hired an outside contractor in

1901
01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:14,800
the guise of dr. Edward Condon they

1902
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:16,510
conducted as far as the Condon committee

1903
01:35:25,530 --> 01:35:20,610
in University of Colorado at Boulder

1904
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:25,540
from 1966 to the end of 1968 and they

1905
01:35:32,060 --> 01:35:27,250
produced an over seven hundred page

1906
01:35:35,580 --> 01:35:32,070
report which even the Condon committee

1907
01:35:38,250 --> 01:35:35,590
couldn't explain twenty-five percent of

1908
01:35:44,220 --> 01:35:38,260
the cases they investigated now just

1909
01:35:46,140 --> 01:35:44,230
imagine you have 25 percent unknowns no

1910
01:35:47,429 --> 01:35:46,150
different than Blue Book for having

1911
01:35:52,250 --> 01:35:47,439
investigated over

1912
01:35:55,979 --> 01:35:52,260
10,000 cases and 701 remained

1913
01:35:58,529 --> 01:35:55,989
unexplained how do you then just wash

1914
01:36:02,909 --> 01:35:58,539
your hands and say it's a hundred

1915
01:36:05,159 --> 01:36:02,919
percent explained we've accomplished you

1916
01:36:07,379 --> 01:36:05,169
know we fulfilled our mission it's all

1917
01:36:11,459 --> 01:36:07,389
been explained conventionally

1918
01:36:14,279 --> 01:36:11,469
prosaically astronomically as far as

1919
01:36:15,390 --> 01:36:14,289
conventional aircraft balloons birds

1920
01:36:18,899 --> 01:36:15,400
what-have-you

1921
01:36:20,819 --> 01:36:18,909
but the truth being Condon couldn't

1922
01:36:23,839 --> 01:36:20,829
explain 25 percent of the cases they

1923
01:36:28,709 --> 01:36:23,849
investigated and Bluebook left

1924
01:36:32,969 --> 01:36:28,719
701 cases unexplained that's still a lot

1925
01:36:37,580 --> 01:36:32,979
of meat on that bone and yet the Air

1926
01:36:41,969 --> 01:36:37,590
Force they just used it as their

1927
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:41,979
official swan song they bowed out at the

1928
01:36:49,939 --> 01:36:46,449
end of 69 officially in January of 1970

1929
01:36:52,649 --> 01:36:49,949
and in reality they went underground

1930
01:36:56,370 --> 01:36:52,659
because as we also demonstrate in the

1931
01:37:00,629 --> 01:36:56,380
book Hynek still served as a consultant

1932
01:37:04,129 --> 01:37:00,639
at wright-patterson on his newly

1933
01:37:08,879 --> 01:37:04,139
assigned title consultant on

1934
01:37:11,459 --> 01:37:08,889
controversial aerial phenomena well I

1935
01:37:14,370 --> 01:37:11,469
know certain colleagues who would like

1936
01:37:17,069 --> 01:37:14,380
to argue that's not UFOs but then please

1937
01:37:19,049 --> 01:37:17,079
tell me what else is that consultant

1938
01:37:23,029 --> 01:37:19,059
controversial aerial phenomenon

1939
01:37:27,299 --> 01:37:23,039
I'm sure it's not the sr-71 blackbird

1940
01:37:30,509 --> 01:37:27,309
well was it their way of keeping Hynek

1941
01:37:33,270 --> 01:37:30,519
under control too as well but yes yes

1942
01:37:35,429 --> 01:37:33,280
totally totally because just imagine

1943
01:37:39,149 --> 01:37:35,439
they announced that they are ending the

1944
01:37:40,949 --> 01:37:39,159
project and Hynek is fully aware that as

1945
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:40,959
he described and as I mentioned earlier

1946
01:37:45,899 --> 01:37:43,449
in the program all the hardcore cases

1947
01:37:49,259 --> 01:37:45,909
were going upstairs they were going

1948
01:37:52,379 --> 01:37:49,269
directly to Washington even a general

1949
01:37:56,189 --> 01:37:52,389
Arthur exon described to us that as the

1950
01:38:00,550 --> 01:37:56,199
base commander in 1964 that they were

1951
01:38:03,910 --> 01:38:00,560
fully aware that Bluebook was just a

1952
01:38:06,580 --> 01:38:03,920
nickel-and-dime project there it was not

1953
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:06,590
a legitimate investigation that the true

1954
01:38:14,770 --> 01:38:11,410
investigation involved officers 8 to 12

1955
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:14,780
even 15 at times who would arrive at

1956
01:38:21,790 --> 01:38:17,770
wright-patt and they would fly off in a

1957
01:38:23,860 --> 01:38:21,800
sign a sign jet in one direction while

1958
01:38:26,020 --> 01:38:23,870
the two investigators at Blue Book would

1959
01:38:28,390 --> 01:38:26,030
fly off and a little single-engine plane

1960
01:38:30,910 --> 01:38:28,400
in the opposite direction Blue Book

1961
01:38:33,820 --> 01:38:30,920
would report back to write Pat and the

1962
01:38:34,750 --> 01:38:33,830
true investigation would report back to

1963
01:38:38,710 --> 01:38:34,760
Washington

1964
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:38,720
Hynek was aware of that Hynek would have

1965
01:38:44,830 --> 01:38:42,170
immediately started to cry foul but they

1966
01:38:49,780 --> 01:38:44,840
kept them on that short leash and it

1967
01:38:51,700 --> 01:38:49,790
wasn't until the fall of 1973 and that's

1968
01:38:54,850 --> 01:38:51,710
where we have that chapter in the book

1969
01:38:58,150 --> 01:38:54,860
and Colonel Robert friend was a witness

1970
01:39:01,380 --> 01:38:58,160
to it as well as Hynek secretary Jenny

1971
01:39:04,660 --> 01:39:01,390
Zeidman when Hynek stormed out of

1972
01:39:08,500 --> 01:39:04,670
Colonel George Wein Brenner's office

1973
01:39:11,910 --> 01:39:08,510
yelling Patsy's patsies they're trying

1974
01:39:15,070 --> 01:39:11,920
to make us Patsy's all over again and

1975
01:39:17,820 --> 01:39:15,080
that's when Hynek went back to Evanston

1976
01:39:21,610 --> 01:39:17,830
he call up his good friend and colleague

1977
01:39:23,850 --> 01:39:21,620
Sherm Larsen and said let's get together

1978
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:23,860
tomorrow we're gonna start that

1979
01:39:29,140 --> 01:39:26,810
organization that you are encouraging me

1980
01:39:32,500 --> 01:39:29,150
to do and that was the birth of the

1981
01:39:35,290 --> 01:39:32,510
Center for UFO studies how were you when

1982
01:39:37,420 --> 01:39:35,300
you got involved I was just out of

1983
01:39:39,670 --> 01:39:37,430
college so I was in my early 20s early

1984
01:39:41,710 --> 01:39:39,680
twenties pretty exciting times weren't

1985
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:41,720
they oh absolutely

1986
01:39:47,050 --> 01:39:43,850
oh absolutely because we had a common

1987
01:39:51,010 --> 01:39:47,060
enemy there was a you know there was a

1988
01:39:53,980 --> 01:39:51,020
common approach and with Hynek being the

1989
01:39:56,590 --> 01:39:53,990
pioneer being the spokesperson and this

1990
01:39:59,670 --> 01:39:56,600
is after now the you know dr. James

1991
01:40:04,420 --> 01:39:59,680
McDonald has passed away right I've long

1992
01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:04,430
suggested that he was the true scientist

1993
01:40:11,860 --> 01:40:08,330
who wasn't shackled by security by the

1994
01:40:14,110 --> 01:40:11,870
Air Force and so if McDonald would have

1995
01:40:15,940 --> 01:40:14,120
lived we you know

1996
01:40:18,640 --> 01:40:15,950
who knows where we might be today we may

1997
01:40:20,860 --> 01:40:18,650
have expected disclosure many years ago

1998
01:40:24,190 --> 01:40:20,870
with McDonald leading the charge

1999
01:40:27,790 --> 01:40:24,200
but with Hynek he still was under a

2000
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:27,800
security oh it's back to the day Hynek

2001
01:40:33,970 --> 01:40:30,650
died he still had a security oath to

2002
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:33,980
maintain yeah James McDonald that that's

2003
01:40:39,700 --> 01:40:37,850
uh that said that's one of the crazy

2004
01:40:42,430 --> 01:40:39,710
stories yeah that's one of the crazy

2005
01:40:44,350 --> 01:40:42,440
crazy stories in all of you follow gee

2006
01:40:47,290 --> 01:40:44,360
and I don't think we'll ever get to the

2007
01:40:49,480 --> 01:40:47,300
bottom of not only his death and the

2008
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:49,490
reality of it but his personal life and

2009
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:53,090
how it was just that man man he was

2010
01:40:55,090 --> 01:40:54,770
targeted that's that's all there was to

2011
01:40:59,620 --> 01:40:55,100
it

2012
01:41:02,920 --> 01:40:59,630
and even when he testified in Washington

2013
01:41:05,410 --> 01:41:02,930
and I'll never forget how

2014
01:41:08,380 --> 01:41:05,420
because McDonald was also in the

2015
01:41:12,820 --> 01:41:08,390
forefront of supersonic commercial

2016
01:41:15,940 --> 01:41:12,830
flight and even the SSP as it was as it

2017
01:41:20,380 --> 01:41:15,950
was called before the Concorde and how

2018
01:41:23,260 --> 01:41:20,390
Teddy Kennedy just lambasted him just

2019
01:41:26,650 --> 01:41:23,270
ridiculed him to no end that anybody

2020
01:41:29,770 --> 01:41:26,660
that you know is also in favor of the

2021
01:41:33,460 --> 01:41:29,780
SST and then he's also preaching to us

2022
01:41:37,450 --> 01:41:33,470
about UFOs and they made a laughingstock

2023
01:41:40,540 --> 01:41:37,460
out of him one of one of the best titles

2024
01:41:45,730 --> 01:41:40,550
of any chapter in any book in publishing

2025
01:41:48,730 --> 01:41:45,740
history is chapter 23 the job of jawbone

2026
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:48,740
that spoke larger jawbone that spoke

2027
01:41:58,270 --> 01:41:54,050
Martian yes what's going on John

2028
01:42:00,880 --> 01:41:58,280
Musgrove John moss growth was a dental

2029
01:42:03,190 --> 01:42:00,890
technician in fact he had even worked he

2030
01:42:06,100 --> 01:42:03,200
was assigned to wright-patterson for

2031
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:06,110
years before going into private practice

2032
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:09,530
just outside of Dayton so he was still

2033
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:12,290
you know in cloth close proximity of the

2034
01:42:21,610 --> 01:42:15,530
base and he worked on the fourth floor

2035
01:42:24,910 --> 01:42:21,620
of a lab facility back in 1979 and his

2036
01:42:27,340 --> 01:42:24,920
boss approached him one day and said I

2037
01:42:31,300 --> 01:42:27,350
need this by tomorrow I need

2038
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:31,310
to create a replica without haste don't

2039
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:33,530
ask me any questions and I'll be back

2040
01:42:40,540 --> 01:42:36,650
tomorrow and musgrove would take what he

2041
01:42:43,900 --> 01:42:40,550
thought was a impression from someone's

2042
01:42:46,540 --> 01:42:43,910
mouth and he took it to a sink thinking

2043
01:42:49,510 --> 01:42:46,550
he'd have to you know wash it of any

2044
01:42:51,940 --> 01:42:49,520
blood and he saliva remnant that was was

2045
01:42:54,490 --> 01:42:51,950
on it and he realized it was an actual

2046
01:42:57,970 --> 01:42:54,500
bone it was a was a mandible the lower

2047
01:43:00,280 --> 01:42:57,980
jawbone of something and as he looked at

2048
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:00,290
he thought my god this isn't human this

2049
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:01,850
doesn't look like anything I've ever

2050
01:43:06,850 --> 01:43:04,010
seen before I wonder if it's an animal

2051
01:43:08,350 --> 01:43:06,860
but then is he he you know examined it

2052
01:43:11,550 --> 01:43:08,360
more and more closely he thought whoa

2053
01:43:13,770 --> 01:43:11,560
it's too big for most animals it's still

2054
01:43:16,750 --> 01:43:13,780
you know looks like some type of a

2055
01:43:20,110 --> 01:43:16,760
humanoid something still closely related

2056
01:43:22,600 --> 01:43:20,120
to a human he made the made up the

2057
01:43:26,110 --> 01:43:22,610
impression made the relief and his boss

2058
01:43:29,560 --> 01:43:26,120
returned the next day and warned him not

2059
01:43:31,390 --> 01:43:29,570
to say a word that this because masks

2060
01:43:33,370 --> 01:43:31,400
rope said well where's the paperwork I

2061
01:43:34,870 --> 01:43:33,380
need to sign off on this and he said you

2062
01:43:37,750 --> 01:43:34,880
didn't do anything you didn't do

2063
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:37,760
anything and that need that requires any

2064
01:43:43,150 --> 01:43:40,370
type of signature and then to ensure

2065
01:43:47,710 --> 01:43:43,160
that mas group wouldn't say anything

2066
01:43:50,620 --> 01:43:47,720
he took the the relief impression to

2067
01:43:53,260 --> 01:43:50,630
create the the second replica the model

2068
01:43:57,310 --> 01:43:53,270
and he crumbled it up and he tossed it

2069
01:44:00,520 --> 01:43:57,320
into the trash so he left and Moscow

2070
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:00,530
followed at a safe distance and then he

2071
01:44:06,580 --> 01:44:02,570
watched as he went out into the parking

2072
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:06,590
lot and a musgrove observed two officers

2073
01:44:14,500 --> 01:44:09,170
two Air Force officers with a briefcase

2074
01:44:17,370 --> 01:44:14,510
and they took the original bone mandible

2075
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:17,380
and the new impression the new replica

2076
01:44:22,990 --> 01:44:20,290
placed them in the briefcase and

2077
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:23,000
musgrove recognized one of the officers

2078
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:25,610
from originally being at

2079
01:44:30,250 --> 01:44:29,090
wright-patterson so then it started to

2080
01:44:33,460 --> 01:44:30,260
come together for him he started to

2081
01:44:35,740 --> 01:44:33,470
realize what was at stake what was going

2082
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:35,750
on he quickly rushed back to his office

2083
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:41,090
he retrieved that crumbled impression

2084
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:45,410
relief and he made up a new one he

2085
01:44:54,190 --> 01:44:48,770
created a whole new replica and he kept

2086
01:44:56,920 --> 01:44:54,200
that any a bank security box for 30 31

2087
01:44:59,640 --> 01:44:56,930
years and then it was the late Carl a

2088
01:45:05,200 --> 01:44:59,650
day who was an Emmy award-winning

2089
01:45:11,260 --> 01:45:05,210
reporter at NBC in Dayton and he turned

2090
01:45:14,230 --> 01:45:11,270
it over to him and then they used it for

2091
01:45:17,440 --> 01:45:14,240
leverage and getting stories and sources

2092
01:45:20,590 --> 01:45:17,450
out of right path that he had this that

2093
01:45:24,100 --> 01:45:20,600
he had this replica of what clearly was

2094
01:45:27,190 --> 01:45:24,110
something non-human and in fact since we

2095
01:45:29,770 --> 01:45:27,200
acquired and I remain in contact with

2096
01:45:32,350 --> 01:45:29,780
John Mostow of all these years he made

2097
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:32,360
another replica for us which we have on

2098
01:45:42,270 --> 01:45:35,570
display at the International UFO museum

2099
01:45:46,420 --> 01:45:42,280
in Roswell and we've had anthropologists

2100
01:45:49,390 --> 01:45:46,430
examine it time and time again and it is

2101
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:49,400
not of any animal any species on earth

2102
01:45:57,970 --> 01:45:54,730
and as far as they are concerned it

2103
01:46:04,570 --> 01:45:57,980
represent on any species from this earth

2104
01:46:08,380 --> 01:46:04,580
I have a bunch of questions from the

2105
01:46:10,900 --> 01:46:08,390
listeners take the time to go through

2106
01:46:15,490 --> 01:46:10,910
these you ready that's what I'm here for

2107
01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:15,500
okay first up what is Don's source for

2108
01:46:23,950 --> 01:46:20,210
project stork project stork would be

2109
01:46:26,650 --> 01:46:23,960
part of hynek's files and actual and and

2110
01:46:30,130 --> 01:46:26,660
Edward repelled the fact that Ruth Built

2111
01:46:35,140 --> 01:46:30,140
who in many ways headed the project

2112
01:46:37,540 --> 01:46:35,150
because he as an engineer was especially

2113
01:46:41,020 --> 01:46:37,550
keen on the idea that we were dealing

2114
01:46:43,690 --> 01:46:41,030
with a physical aircraft we were dealing

2115
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:43,700
with something that was manufactured

2116
01:46:48,310 --> 01:46:46,610
even albeit that it may be off the

2117
01:46:52,540 --> 01:46:48,320
planet that we were dealing with

2118
01:46:54,940 --> 01:46:52,550
Hardware nuts and bolts and so in many

2119
01:46:58,090 --> 01:46:54,950
in fact repelled

2120
01:47:01,780 --> 01:46:58,100
report on unidentified flying objects he

2121
01:47:04,330 --> 01:47:01,790
references a stork to some degree and

2122
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:04,340
then the documents have also been

2123
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:05,690
retrieved through Freedom of Information

2124
01:47:11,740 --> 01:47:09,650
Act in recent years next question

2125
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:11,750
Jimmy does not have any thoughts on

2126
01:47:17,740 --> 01:47:14,330
retired Air Force lieutenant colonel

2127
01:47:19,990 --> 01:47:17,750
Richard French claims that there were

2128
01:47:22,150 --> 01:47:20,000
two craft that came down at Roswell one

2129
01:47:25,870 --> 01:47:22,160
being brought down by military energy

2130
01:47:30,210 --> 01:47:25,880
weapons well first of all it is I used

2131
01:47:33,310 --> 01:47:30,220
to always very affectionately remind my

2132
01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:33,320
recently departed colleague and friend

2133
01:47:38,790 --> 01:47:35,690
Stanton Friedman when he would talk

2134
01:47:42,370 --> 01:47:38,800
about the collision of two objects

2135
01:47:45,880 --> 01:47:42,380
creating multiple crash sites I would

2136
01:47:49,510 --> 01:47:45,890
say Stan we we we need to prove one

2137
01:47:52,630 --> 01:47:49,520
let's not make it ridiculous there is

2138
01:47:55,900 --> 01:47:52,640
absolutely no evidence that there were

2139
01:47:57,580 --> 01:47:55,910
more than one craft involved albeit

2140
01:48:04,120 --> 01:47:57,590
there are multiple sites but all

2141
01:48:09,010 --> 01:48:04,130
concerning one object one one craft of

2142
01:48:11,500 --> 01:48:09,020
unknown origin the the French testimony

2143
01:48:14,560 --> 01:48:11,510
has never been corroborated and in fact

2144
01:48:16,390 --> 01:48:14,570
we interviewed him long before he even

2145
01:48:22,060 --> 01:48:16,400
testified at the citizens hearing in

2146
01:48:25,180 --> 01:48:22,070
Washington and just he's not been able

2147
01:48:30,030 --> 01:48:25,190
to provide any corroboration on his part

2148
01:48:34,240 --> 01:48:30,040
and all of the eyewitness testimony

2149
01:48:37,330 --> 01:48:34,250
supports that this was a single craft

2150
01:48:40,420 --> 01:48:37,340
there was a severe lightning storm that

2151
01:48:44,140 --> 01:48:40,430
also has been verified for the night in

2152
01:48:46,330 --> 01:48:44,150
question and whether we assume that it

2153
01:48:49,660 --> 01:48:46,340
was struck by lightning or it was some

2154
01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:49,670
type of internal malfunction that is

2155
01:48:54,730 --> 01:48:52,610
totally open to speculation we we just

2156
01:48:55,270 --> 01:48:54,740
don't know what actually caused the

2157
01:48:58,180 --> 01:48:55,280
crash

2158
01:49:02,850 --> 01:48:58,190
yeah I mean so we have we have Roswell

2159
01:49:07,570 --> 01:49:02,860
we have corona and we have Aztec right

2160
01:49:08,500 --> 01:49:07,580
well Roswell we talked about Corona that

2161
01:49:13,290 --> 01:49:08,510
is the location

2162
01:49:17,020 --> 01:49:13,300
the debris field that is where the craft

2163
01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:17,030
exploded weather struck by lightning or

2164
01:49:23,380 --> 01:49:20,090
malfunction it rained debris that

2165
01:49:27,100 --> 01:49:23,390
covered an area of almost a mile long

2166
01:49:29,740 --> 01:49:27,110
there was a secondary body sight two and

2167
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:29,750
a half miles east southeast of that

2168
01:49:36,250 --> 01:49:33,290
location where two bodies were recovered

2169
01:49:40,750 --> 01:49:36,260
and then there was a final impact site

2170
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:40,760
much closer to Roswell of a egg-shaped

2171
01:49:46,540 --> 01:49:43,970
pod a capsule about the size of a

2172
01:49:49,350 --> 01:49:46,550
Volkswagen Beetle and that's for two

2173
01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:49,360
additional bodies plus the survivor

2174
01:49:57,130 --> 01:49:52,610
recovered Aztek is a separate incident a

2175
01:49:59,620 --> 01:49:57,140
year later but from corona trajectory

2176
01:50:02,200 --> 01:49:59,630
towards Roswell is all part of the same

2177
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:02,210
event the same incident so just one

2178
01:50:12,430 --> 01:50:09,170
craft not to correct next question does

2179
01:50:15,460 --> 01:50:12,440
does mr. Schmitt have info on what the

2180
01:50:17,020 --> 01:50:15,470
Wilson Doc's were referring to when it

2181
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:17,030
was mentioned that there was a craft

2182
01:50:23,980 --> 01:50:21,050
recovered at an archaeological dig have

2183
01:50:24,370 --> 01:50:23,990
you read the Wilson Davis Docs yes I

2184
01:50:28,270 --> 01:50:24,380
have

2185
01:50:32,770 --> 01:50:28,280
again that would okay that would suggest

2186
01:50:35,830 --> 01:50:32,780
again Roswell because even in the

2187
01:50:39,820 --> 01:50:35,840
original Roswell incident book by more

2188
01:50:44,110 --> 01:50:39,830
and Berlitz it was suggested that who

2189
01:50:47,860 --> 01:50:44,120
first stumbled upon the crash site was a

2190
01:50:51,910 --> 01:50:47,870
team of archaeologists and when we

2191
01:50:58,270 --> 01:50:51,920
finally determined that it was Western

2192
01:51:01,480 --> 01:50:58,280
tech that was part of a archaeological

2193
01:51:04,440 --> 01:51:01,490
project north of Roswell at the time of

2194
01:51:10,000 --> 01:51:04,450
the incident the head of the project was

2195
01:51:12,430 --> 01:51:10,010
Professor William curry Holden and Kevin

2196
01:51:15,250 --> 01:51:12,440
Randall had interviewed him just prior

2197
01:51:17,140 --> 01:51:15,260
to his death and he confirmed being

2198
01:51:18,970 --> 01:51:17,150
there they confirmed not only being

2199
01:51:21,550 --> 01:51:18,980
there and that they had seen everything

2200
01:51:22,360 --> 01:51:21,560
he would not elaborate he wouldn't go

2201
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:22,370
into detail

2202
01:51:26,890 --> 01:51:25,130
just that they were also sworn to

2203
01:51:29,950 --> 01:51:26,900
secrecy they were told to never talk

2204
01:51:33,640 --> 01:51:29,960
about it again but we did confirm they

2205
01:51:34,780 --> 01:51:33,650
were working north of Roswell at the

2206
01:51:38,710 --> 01:51:34,790
time of the incident

2207
01:51:45,430 --> 01:51:38,720
so archaeologists again would suggest

2208
01:51:48,370 --> 01:51:45,440
Roswell next question this is actually

2209
01:51:51,070 --> 01:51:48,380
you kind of touched upon this if we as

2210
01:51:55,500 --> 01:51:51,080
humans had all of the answers to all of

2211
01:52:02,380 --> 01:51:58,660
well I I would I would even go a step

2212
01:52:06,100 --> 01:52:02,390
further and I often pointed this out to

2213
01:52:10,110 --> 01:52:06,110
the skeptical community if we're wrong

2214
01:52:12,610 --> 01:52:10,120
if I'm wrong if the Pro UFO Pro

2215
01:52:14,650 --> 01:52:12,620
investigation prole you know let's

2216
01:52:16,690 --> 01:52:14,660
determine once and for all what we're

2217
01:52:20,170 --> 01:52:16,700
dealing with nobody has any answers

2218
01:52:24,550 --> 01:52:20,180
we're still working on this but if we're

2219
01:52:27,310 --> 01:52:24,560
wrong it doesn't change anything what

2220
01:52:29,070 --> 01:52:27,320
are the skeptical community is wrong it

2221
01:52:34,030 --> 01:52:29,080
changes everything

2222
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:34,040
and that's why I think they feel that

2223
01:52:43,120 --> 01:52:37,010
they have the most at stake the most to

2224
01:52:45,130 --> 01:52:43,130
lose because overnight it creates like

2225
01:52:48,790 --> 01:52:45,140
even in Bryce is able and Richard

2226
01:52:53,020 --> 01:52:48,800
Dolan's book after eight ad a/d

2227
01:52:55,450 --> 01:52:53,030
disclosure that what effect does that

2228
01:52:57,790 --> 01:52:55,460
have as far as what culturally the

2229
01:52:59,470 --> 01:52:57,800
culture shock what does it have effect

2230
01:53:01,810 --> 01:52:59,480
as far as I have on the economy the

2231
01:53:06,610 --> 01:53:01,820
stock market as far as the price of

2232
01:53:08,470 --> 01:53:06,620
crude oil as far as to the banking the

2233
01:53:11,550 --> 01:53:08,480
international banking institutions

2234
01:53:15,070 --> 01:53:11,560
organized religion on and on and on and

2235
01:53:17,020 --> 01:53:15,080
we all you know live as far as on you

2236
01:53:17,890 --> 01:53:17,030
know very safely on this this little

2237
01:53:20,860 --> 01:53:17,900
capsule called

2238
01:53:22,930 --> 01:53:20,870
a planet Earth and we're all here you

2239
01:53:26,770 --> 01:53:22,940
know going through the you know the same

2240
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:26,780
you know ride through space which is you

2241
01:53:32,470 --> 01:53:28,250
know just happens to be our very lives

2242
01:53:35,589 --> 01:53:32,480
and we all work and we all play and we

2243
01:53:38,890 --> 01:53:35,599
all hopefully get along with one another

2244
01:53:41,290 --> 01:53:38,900
but this you know throws our a monkey

2245
01:53:43,870 --> 01:53:41,300
wrench and the work so to speak well you

2246
01:53:46,780 --> 01:53:43,880
know and oh I'm sorry go ahead go ahead

2247
01:53:51,010 --> 01:53:46,790
but but but then I would I would take it

2248
01:53:54,339 --> 01:53:51,020
one one step further because given

2249
01:53:57,069 --> 01:53:54,349
Roswell happens okay let's just I'm 99%

2250
01:53:59,109 --> 01:53:57,079
convinced that Roswell indeed was the

2251
01:53:59,939 --> 01:53:59,119
recovery of a craft of unknown origin

2252
01:54:02,950 --> 01:53:59,949
okay

2253
01:54:04,300 --> 01:54:02,960
there was no mass suicide there was no

2254
01:54:07,569 --> 01:54:04,310
panic in the streets

2255
01:54:11,470 --> 01:54:07,579
those people went through the motions

2256
01:54:13,359 --> 01:54:11,480
they did what they had to do they didn't

2257
01:54:16,629 --> 01:54:13,369
have anything in the Army Field Manual

2258
01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:16,639
how to deal with this there was nothing

2259
01:54:25,089 --> 01:54:20,530
and you know as far as in the human

2260
01:54:29,260 --> 01:54:25,099
awareness of dealing with in a craft

2261
01:54:32,020 --> 01:54:29,270
from another planet even our perception

2262
01:54:34,180 --> 01:54:32,030
of visitors from outer space whether it

2263
01:54:36,700 --> 01:54:34,190
was Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers back

2264
01:54:39,580 --> 01:54:36,710
then but they were flying rockets and

2265
01:54:44,020 --> 01:54:39,590
they look like human beings but yet

2266
01:54:46,089 --> 01:54:44,030
Roswell again changed everything but

2267
01:54:48,100 --> 01:54:46,099
they lived out their lives they worked

2268
01:54:50,620 --> 01:54:48,110
their jobs they raised their families

2269
01:54:53,649 --> 01:54:50,630
they even kept going to church and they

2270
01:54:56,350 --> 01:54:53,659
were there they were back there in 1947

2271
01:54:58,660 --> 01:54:56,360
right and here we are 72 years later and

2272
01:55:01,060 --> 01:54:58,670
we've digressed we can't handle this no

2273
01:55:03,220 --> 01:55:01,070
no no I don't think you would be

2274
01:55:06,790 --> 01:55:03,230
impacted by it any more than I would

2275
01:55:11,140 --> 01:55:06,800
Jimmy and just saying I knew it you're

2276
01:55:17,250 --> 01:55:11,150
right about that and and I think the

2277
01:55:20,530 --> 01:55:17,260
evidence is is is stronger where the

2278
01:55:22,810 --> 01:55:20,540
right roswell was real right we get the

2279
01:55:25,899 --> 01:55:22,820
announcement okay we recovered a flying

2280
01:55:28,089 --> 01:55:25,909
saucer and nobody's gonna freak out on

2281
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:28,099
that they're gonna freak out and be

2282
01:55:34,839 --> 01:55:30,650
pissed because they were lied to about

2283
01:55:37,810 --> 01:55:34,849
it yeah that the issue that is the issue

2284
01:55:41,830 --> 01:55:37,820
exactly Jimmy the culpability the fact

2285
01:55:44,319 --> 01:55:41,840
that civilians were threatened children

2286
01:55:48,990 --> 01:55:44,329
were threatened the point being that the

2287
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:49,000
military unless marshal

2288
01:55:55,830 --> 01:55:51,930
law is declared they have absolutely no

2289
01:55:58,650 --> 01:55:55,840
authority over civilians and the fact

2290
01:56:01,590 --> 01:55:58,660
that they were behaving as stormtroopers

2291
01:56:03,960 --> 01:56:01,600
going into people's homes telling

2292
01:56:06,360 --> 01:56:03,970
parents they would kill their children

2293
01:56:08,670 --> 01:56:06,370
if they ever talked about this again

2294
01:56:09,410 --> 01:56:08,680
who's going to be responsible for that

2295
01:56:11,910 --> 01:56:09,420
today

2296
01:56:15,090 --> 01:56:11,920
who's going to finally say what we did

2297
01:56:15,630 --> 01:56:15,100
what we had to do okay yes I can accept

2298
01:56:18,570 --> 01:56:15,640
that

2299
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:18,580
but the point being you still did it

2300
01:56:25,020 --> 01:56:21,610
you've been lying about even doing it

2301
01:56:25,830 --> 01:56:25,030
all these years and now we're gonna

2302
01:56:28,950 --> 01:56:25,840
trust you

2303
01:56:30,990 --> 01:56:28,960
now we're gonna believe you know what do

2304
01:56:34,050 --> 01:56:31,000
you what do you make of the big push

2305
01:56:36,540 --> 01:56:34,060
that's going on right now with UFOs or

2306
01:56:39,210 --> 01:56:36,550
you want to call me you AP's it doesn't

2307
01:56:44,400 --> 01:56:39,220
matter in the mainstream media is there

2308
01:56:45,900 --> 01:56:44,410
an agenda behind this as we were

2309
01:56:47,550 --> 01:56:45,910
discussing at beginning the program

2310
01:56:51,570 --> 01:56:47,560
Jimmy I'd like to believe that because

2311
01:56:55,190 --> 01:56:51,580
it involves then maybe it's fresh turf

2312
01:56:56,510 --> 01:56:55,200
it's it's it's cases that have not been

2313
01:57:00,660 --> 01:56:56,520
publicized

2314
01:57:03,300 --> 01:57:00,670
the Air Force sign grudge Blue Book

2315
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:03,310
you know it's except for sign which was

2316
01:57:09,810 --> 01:57:05,530
destroyed but a lot of the case files

2317
01:57:12,120 --> 01:57:09,820
are still there a Blue Book most of the

2318
01:57:15,330 --> 01:57:12,130
case reports are there there was a lot

2319
01:57:18,030 --> 01:57:15,340
of gun camera references I love to see

2320
01:57:20,460 --> 01:57:18,040
those films so there's a lot of

2321
01:57:22,170 --> 01:57:20,470
photographs a lot of film that the Air

2322
01:57:26,100 --> 01:57:22,180
Force is still holding on to but

2323
01:57:29,030 --> 01:57:26,110
nonetheless this is again another branch

2324
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:29,040
of the military sticking its neck out

2325
01:57:35,640 --> 01:57:31,810
saying that they're providing new

2326
01:57:40,770 --> 01:57:35,650
regulations for their own personnel to

2327
01:57:46,040 --> 01:57:40,780
freely report such things and so is this

2328
01:57:50,820 --> 01:57:46,050
the advent of a whole new opportunity

2329
01:57:55,110 --> 01:57:50,830
for pilots to now Republic to go to the

2330
01:57:59,240 --> 01:57:55,120
press and report such things or is again

2331
01:58:02,350 --> 01:57:59,250
a smokescreen is it's going to learn at

2332
01:58:04,359 --> 01:58:02,360
some later date that it

2333
01:58:07,330 --> 01:58:04,369
a new aircraft that they have been

2334
01:58:09,879 --> 01:58:07,340
testing and they just did not want to

2335
01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:09,889
divulge or release the information to

2336
01:58:17,770 --> 01:58:14,810
the Russians or the Chinese and we have

2337
01:58:19,890 --> 01:58:17,780
to be very careful and I for one you

2338
01:58:23,500 --> 01:58:19,900
know can speak to that better than most

2339
01:58:28,689 --> 01:58:23,510
because when it looks too good it

2340
01:58:31,930 --> 01:58:28,699
usually is well do you ask why you know

2341
01:58:35,080 --> 01:58:31,940
I mean why now what's the reason for it

2342
01:58:39,250 --> 01:58:35,090
is it because they can't control the

2343
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:39,260
situation anymore that the public now is

2344
01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:41,570
is going to get the answers that they

2345
01:58:46,959 --> 01:58:44,330
seek and they may find out something

2346
01:58:50,350 --> 01:58:46,969
that the government doesn't want them to

2347
01:58:52,320 --> 01:58:50,360
find out and this is their way of trying

2348
01:58:54,910 --> 01:58:52,330
to get out in front of the story

2349
01:58:58,750 --> 01:58:54,920
well you mentioned like Bob Lazar

2350
01:59:01,899 --> 01:58:58,760
earlier right and the distinction and I

2351
01:59:05,229 --> 01:59:01,909
always and I was because I still I'm on

2352
01:59:09,340 --> 01:59:05,239
the fence with with wit Lazar and for

2353
01:59:12,340 --> 01:59:09,350
this reason we could cite the example of

2354
01:59:15,580 --> 01:59:12,350
Edward Snowden whether one believe you

2355
01:59:17,859 --> 01:59:15,590
know he to be a hero or a traitor but

2356
01:59:20,879 --> 01:59:17,869
nonetheless is a whistleblower a thought

2357
01:59:23,979 --> 01:59:20,889
being that he had to flee the country

2358
01:59:27,189 --> 01:59:23,989
for protection I mean who would have

2359
01:59:32,439 --> 01:59:27,199
ever imagined that you'd have to go to

2360
01:59:34,620 --> 01:59:32,449
Russia as an American or for asylum for

2361
01:59:37,180 --> 01:59:34,630
nothing more than just speaking out

2362
01:59:40,540 --> 01:59:37,190
about something you disagree something

2363
01:59:42,520 --> 01:59:40,550
you saw and you just you used you felt

2364
01:59:45,459 --> 01:59:42,530
that the public needed to know right and

2365
01:59:49,209 --> 01:59:45,469
yet that was not the case with Lazar

2366
01:59:51,790 --> 01:59:49,219
that he was able to freely speak out and

2367
01:59:54,459 --> 01:59:51,800
there may have been some you know you

2368
01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:54,469
know minor attempts to discredit him but

2369
02:00:00,310 --> 01:59:56,810
nonetheless nobody stopped him he's

2370
02:00:02,010 --> 02:00:00,320
still here he spoke quite freely and he

2371
02:00:04,990 --> 02:00:02,020
I he tricks actually spoke quite

2372
02:00:08,410 --> 02:00:05,000
detailed about something that supposedly

2373
02:00:11,770 --> 02:00:08,420
would be rather sensitive considering

2374
02:00:16,259 --> 02:00:11,780
you know their entire cover-up of the

2375
02:00:18,580 --> 02:00:16,269
entire UFO situation so

2376
02:00:21,459 --> 02:00:18,590
and then bringing it to the fore

2377
02:00:23,679 --> 02:00:21,469
bringing it to today the thought being

2378
02:00:27,699 --> 02:00:23,689
you know III hearken back to like when

2379
02:00:32,439 --> 02:00:27,709
the mj-12 documents came out in 1987 and

2380
02:00:35,589 --> 02:00:32,449
I was representing Koufos going back and

2381
02:00:37,449 --> 02:00:35,599
forth to Los Angeles and I was meeting

2382
02:00:39,459 --> 02:00:37,459
with the players at that time I was

2383
02:00:42,489 --> 02:00:39,469
meeting with Bill Moore and Jamie

2384
02:00:45,459 --> 02:00:42,499
Shannon ray and fro and not directly

2385
02:00:47,140 --> 02:00:45,469
with Richard Doty but he would have been

2386
02:00:50,949 --> 02:00:47,150
next on my list

2387
02:00:53,500 --> 02:00:50,959
but the constant promises that we were

2388
02:00:57,129 --> 02:00:53,510
going to get a full truckload of

2389
02:00:59,379 --> 02:00:57,139
documents that disclosure was eminent

2390
02:01:01,179 --> 02:00:59,389
that it was all going to happen and it

2391
02:01:02,859 --> 02:01:01,189
wasn't going to be years it wasn't even

2392
02:01:06,429 --> 02:01:02,869
going to be months it was going to be a

2393
02:01:12,879 --> 02:01:06,439
matter of weeks and then what became of

2394
02:01:15,069 --> 02:01:12,889
it nothing absolutely nothing and so the

2395
02:01:17,229 --> 02:01:15,079
the only thing different today and we

2396
02:01:21,129 --> 02:01:17,239
also talked about this earlier is the

2397
02:01:23,049 --> 02:01:21,139
social media that somebody may have

2398
02:01:25,149 --> 02:01:23,059
thought that they could just test the

2399
02:01:27,819 --> 02:01:25,159
waters they could once again see what

2400
02:01:31,120 --> 02:01:27,829
the public reaction would be right but

2401
02:01:34,479 --> 02:01:31,130
the difference now is they can't put it

2402
02:01:38,339 --> 02:01:34,489
back in the bottle and that now the

2403
02:01:41,949 --> 02:01:38,349
situation with area 51 and the press

2404
02:01:44,580 --> 02:01:41,959
actually treating the subject seriously

2405
02:01:47,709 --> 02:01:44,590
with respect who would have ever thought

2406
02:01:50,709 --> 02:01:47,719
that they are actually you know

2407
02:01:55,209 --> 02:01:50,719
questioning the motives of the military

2408
02:01:58,569 --> 02:01:55,219
and realizing that there indeed is

2409
02:02:03,279 --> 02:01:58,579
something to cover-up to hide

2410
02:02:05,919 --> 02:02:03,289
and so we with the acknowledgement that

2411
02:02:08,830 --> 02:02:05,929
there was an ongoing investigation by

2412
02:02:11,439 --> 02:02:08,840
the Pentagon for all those years into

2413
02:02:13,779 --> 02:02:11,449
recent times and then I would suggest

2414
02:02:15,339 --> 02:02:13,789
well that's only what they acknowledge

2415
02:02:17,739 --> 02:02:15,349
I'll guarantee there still are

2416
02:02:21,489 --> 02:02:17,749
investigating this they don't ever stop

2417
02:02:24,399 --> 02:02:21,499
they have never quit and so the old

2418
02:02:28,149 --> 02:02:24,409
shell game continues and it is a game

2419
02:02:28,690 --> 02:02:28,159
it's a it's a game and that you wonder

2420
02:02:39,130 --> 02:02:28,700
for

2421
02:02:41,470 --> 02:02:39,140
general public and that's where major

2422
02:02:45,250 --> 02:02:41,480
aerospace companies and we can talk

2423
02:02:48,910 --> 02:02:45,260
about Bigelow Aerospace and Bigelow has

2424
02:02:53,380 --> 02:02:48,920
the Mars mission and the the Mars colony

2425
02:02:55,870 --> 02:02:53,390
mission all the you know plans as far as

2426
02:02:59,920 --> 02:02:55,880
a manned mission to Mars that type of

2427
02:03:02,710 --> 02:02:59,930
thing is it somehow connected to that is

2428
02:03:05,440 --> 02:03:02,720
this a way of getting funding for other

2429
02:03:09,990 --> 02:03:05,450
projects and is this the Navy's way of

2430
02:03:12,280 --> 02:03:10,000
getting additional funding in trying to

2431
02:03:14,140 --> 02:03:12,290
discover learn what they're actually

2432
02:03:16,540 --> 02:03:14,150
encountering what they're dealing with I

2433
02:03:20,980 --> 02:03:16,550
don't know well I don't

2434
02:03:23,680 --> 02:03:20,990
well hey died that's uh Wow Wow Don

2435
02:03:26,830 --> 02:03:23,690
that's crazy I hadn't even looked at it

2436
02:03:28,630 --> 02:03:26,840
from that angle but that's a strong

2437
02:03:30,700 --> 02:03:28,640
suggestion you know they always say

2438
02:03:32,410 --> 02:03:30,710
follow the money right you don't follow

2439
02:03:37,150 --> 02:03:32,420
them follow the money hey I wanted to

2440
02:03:41,200 --> 02:03:37,160
ask you really quick Bill Moore do you

2441
02:03:42,700 --> 02:03:41,210
think he follows the community do you

2442
02:03:46,120 --> 02:03:42,710
think that like this show do you think

2443
02:03:49,750 --> 02:03:46,130
he listens anymore or when when he left

2444
02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:49,760
Las Vegas that night I hate I was there

2445
02:03:54,910 --> 02:03:51,770
yeah yeah you were there you were there

2446
02:03:57,400 --> 02:03:54,920
effects Stan Stan Friedman and I were to

2447
02:04:01,090 --> 02:03:57,410
have met with him privately yet after

2448
02:04:03,700 --> 02:04:01,100
that swan song and then when he slipped

2449
02:04:05,350 --> 02:04:03,710
out the back door because we were still

2450
02:04:08,440 --> 02:04:05,360
willing to give him the benefit of the

2451
02:04:11,440 --> 02:04:08,450
doubt we still wanted you know willing

2452
02:04:15,040 --> 02:04:11,450
to get a confession from him or at least

2453
02:04:17,020 --> 02:04:15,050
who are the other players to use that

2454
02:04:19,360 --> 02:04:17,030
word again that we should be concerned

2455
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:19,370
about that we should watch out for what

2456
02:04:22,990 --> 02:04:21,530
you don't know he do bailed on us he

2457
02:04:24,610 --> 02:04:23,000
bailed on us and he we wouldn't even

2458
02:04:27,760 --> 02:04:24,620
meet but do I believe he's still

2459
02:04:30,460 --> 02:04:27,770
watching yes do I believe in fact I'm

2460
02:04:31,990 --> 02:04:30,470
often and Kevin Randle and and Tom Carey

2461
02:04:34,150 --> 02:04:32,000
we have often commented between

2462
02:04:36,820 --> 02:04:34,160
ourselves that bill Moore could have had

2463
02:04:37,580 --> 02:04:36,830
it all yes he did he wouldn't wait horse

2464
02:04:42,740 --> 02:04:37,590
yeah

2465
02:04:45,500 --> 02:04:42,750
investigating Roswell at a time when

2466
02:04:49,839 --> 02:04:45,510
most of the witnesses were still alive

2467
02:04:54,890 --> 02:04:49,849
and to think that they had Jesse Marcel

2468
02:04:57,530 --> 02:04:54,900
who was there at the crash site could

2469
02:04:59,810 --> 02:04:57,540
have taken them and pointed out this is

2470
02:05:02,390 --> 02:04:59,820
where I saw this and this is where I saw

2471
02:05:04,609 --> 02:05:02,400
all that and they never took him back to

2472
02:05:07,939 --> 02:05:04,619
the scene of the crime they never

2473
02:05:09,850 --> 02:05:07,949
thought about that and to me that's

2474
02:05:11,500 --> 02:05:09,860
almost investigator malpractice

2475
02:05:13,970 --> 02:05:11,510
unforgivable

2476
02:05:15,800 --> 02:05:13,980
we didn't have that opportunity we

2477
02:05:18,320 --> 02:05:15,810
didn't have that chance right they did

2478
02:05:20,870 --> 02:05:18,330
right he did right and they allowed

2479
02:05:24,229 --> 02:05:20,880
themselves to get diverted to get

2480
02:05:26,810 --> 02:05:24,239
distracted they they they saw the need

2481
02:05:29,359 --> 02:05:26,820
to speed up the process they didn't have

2482
02:05:31,370 --> 02:05:29,369
the patience and there too I think they

2483
02:05:35,780 --> 02:05:31,380
were trying to capitalize on it as

2484
02:05:36,379 --> 02:05:35,790
quickly as they could and they all paid

2485
02:05:40,399 --> 02:05:36,389
a heavy price

2486
02:05:42,530 --> 02:05:40,409
well Dodie called in to this show you

2487
02:05:46,520 --> 02:05:42,540
should go and listen to it it's up on

2488
02:05:50,870 --> 02:05:46,530
YouTube and just his section he calls in

2489
02:05:54,169 --> 02:05:50,880
and one of the things I asked myself

2490
02:05:57,709 --> 02:05:54,179
okay all right is there any is there

2491
02:06:00,410 --> 02:05:57,719
anybody any disinfo agents or any

2492
02:06:04,220 --> 02:06:00,420
speakers out there today that are like

2493
02:06:07,790 --> 02:06:04,230
Bill Moore that you know are our agents

2494
02:06:11,540 --> 02:06:07,800
and said yes and I said really and it

2495
02:06:14,870 --> 02:06:11,550
goes well and I said do I know them and

2496
02:06:21,589 --> 02:06:14,880
I believe I'm paraphrasing here Don but

2497
02:06:24,919 --> 02:06:21,599
he said yes and and he goes top top two

2498
02:06:30,439 --> 02:06:24,929
on the lecture circuit today like like

2499
02:06:34,370 --> 02:06:30,449
up up you know the top top our boy I

2500
02:06:37,640 --> 02:06:34,380
said don't don't say any names go in

2501
02:06:40,669 --> 02:06:37,650
there let's just leave it at that and I

2502
02:06:42,530 --> 02:06:40,679
immediately made phone calls I mean I

2503
02:06:45,950 --> 02:06:42,540
talked to everybody I talked to Stanton

2504
02:06:47,810 --> 02:06:45,960
I talked to Dolan I talked to Linda and

2505
02:06:49,719 --> 02:06:47,820
a few other they would be they would be

2506
02:06:51,580 --> 02:06:49,729
three right right right

2507
02:06:53,199 --> 02:06:51,590
and everybody that I talked to was like

2508
02:06:54,850 --> 02:06:53,209
well what do you think Jimmy who do you

2509
02:06:57,910 --> 02:06:54,860
think I don't know what do you think

2510
02:07:00,459 --> 02:06:57,920
well I don't know I'm everybody got you

2511
02:07:02,529 --> 02:07:00,469
know this uncomfortable feeling you know

2512
02:07:03,580 --> 02:07:02,539
you know Dodi saying something like that

2513
02:07:06,399 --> 02:07:03,590
now look Dodi

2514
02:07:09,310 --> 02:07:06,409
he's a disinfo agent maybe that was

2515
02:07:13,569 --> 02:07:09,320
dissin plea right you know get a bunch

2516
02:07:17,259 --> 02:07:13,579
infighting going and and much too much

2517
02:07:20,680 --> 02:07:17,269
to stands credit he did most of the

2518
02:07:23,439 --> 02:07:20,690
research for the book and all he got was

2519
02:07:27,449 --> 02:07:23,449
an acknowledgement right I mean Roswell

2520
02:07:32,160 --> 02:07:27,459
incident with Stanton Friedman yeah and

2521
02:07:35,979 --> 02:07:32,170
even when the the entire mj-12 Fiasco

2522
02:07:37,359 --> 02:07:35,989
started Stan was on the outside he was

2523
02:07:39,669 --> 02:07:37,369
living up in New Brunswick

2524
02:07:42,669 --> 02:07:39,679
as far as Frederick Turing as far as

2525
02:07:47,290 --> 02:07:42,679
progeny in Canada and this was all going

2526
02:07:49,719 --> 02:07:47,300
down in LA Burbank or Mamie Shannon or a

2527
02:07:55,239 --> 02:07:49,729
bill Moore yep Dodie was at Kirtland in

2528
02:07:59,500 --> 02:07:55,249
Albuquerque yep and so stan was you know

2529
02:08:02,620 --> 02:07:59,510
again he was kept out of it because I'm

2530
02:08:05,259 --> 02:08:02,630
I know in my heart that Stan would have

2531
02:08:09,040 --> 02:08:05,269
cried foul that if he would have saw

2532
02:08:12,489 --> 02:08:09,050
anything that he felt would have

2533
02:08:15,219 --> 02:08:12,499
jeopardized his reputation jeopardized

2534
02:08:17,529 --> 02:08:15,229
the Roswell case and I saw it because

2535
02:08:20,979 --> 02:08:17,539
whenever he disagreed with me he was

2536
02:08:23,830 --> 02:08:20,989
quick to say Don this witness isn't

2537
02:08:26,979 --> 02:08:23,840
reliable is illegitimate and more times

2538
02:08:29,399 --> 02:08:26,989
than not he was correct and so he was

2539
02:08:34,390 --> 02:08:29,409
always looking at the bigger picture and

2540
02:08:36,850 --> 02:08:34,400
I think they used Stan as far as to

2541
02:08:39,819 --> 02:08:36,860
their benefit but they never repaid him

2542
02:08:41,410 --> 02:08:39,829
in kind and then and then he became you

2543
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:41,420
know the biggest champion as far as

2544
02:08:49,629 --> 02:08:44,090
defending MJ as well and the documents

2545
02:08:52,060 --> 02:08:49,639
and where were they they bailed do you

2546
02:08:57,100 --> 02:08:52,070
think do you think we should chase down

2547
02:09:02,109 --> 02:08:57,110
Bill Moore I mean is there is there a

2548
02:09:03,569 --> 02:09:02,119
reason there's enough questions ask but

2549
02:09:07,259 --> 02:09:03,579
is there a reason to

2550
02:09:11,429 --> 02:09:07,269
to bring him back out and and to to

2551
02:09:16,289 --> 02:09:11,439
speak with him is there you know what I

2552
02:09:18,629 --> 02:09:16,299
know that I know that Greg Bishop did

2553
02:09:22,559 --> 02:09:18,639
the last interview with him in recent

2554
02:09:26,299 --> 02:09:22,569
years and more coring and based on the

2555
02:09:31,019 --> 02:09:26,309
transcript moralist mouth claiming that

2556
02:09:35,279 --> 02:09:31,029
it was that the true head of the aviary

2557
02:09:40,109 --> 02:09:35,289
that Falcon was actually CIA well it

2558
02:09:44,819 --> 02:09:40,119
wasn't it wasn't it Dodi's that was uh

2559
02:09:50,219 --> 02:09:44,829
what's-his-name head of the CIA oh man

2560
02:09:53,729 --> 02:09:50,229
I can't think of his name right now and

2561
02:09:58,289 --> 02:09:53,739
I'm not either because it wasn't a name

2562
02:10:00,179 --> 02:09:58,299
that oh my it was invalid Ellis who just

2563
02:10:02,219 --> 02:10:00,189
you know just stands right out I know it

2564
02:10:05,039 --> 02:10:02,229
was really richard helm richard helm

2565
02:10:12,869 --> 02:10:05,049
it was richard helm and that richard

2566
02:10:16,849 --> 02:10:12,879
helm was part of this and I guess if if

2567
02:10:23,759 --> 02:10:16,859
one were to offer him an opportunity I

2568
02:10:26,189 --> 02:10:23,769
can't think of a better place that he

2569
02:10:28,579 --> 02:10:26,199
not only will be treated fairly but he

2570
02:10:31,939 --> 02:10:28,589
also would get some hardball questions

2571
02:10:35,549 --> 02:10:31,949
you wouldn't treat him with kid gloves

2572
02:10:38,099 --> 02:10:35,559
when do you and yet you're right when

2573
02:10:40,949 --> 02:10:38,109
you say that he he could have had it all

2574
02:10:47,459 --> 02:10:40,959
and I've tried to remind this audience

2575
02:10:51,869 --> 02:10:47,469
time and time again that yeah he cut and

2576
02:10:54,179 --> 02:10:51,879
ran okay yes but without bill more we

2577
02:10:54,750 --> 02:10:54,189
don't have a lot of things with ufology

2578
02:10:59,549 --> 02:10:54,760
today

2579
02:11:05,339 --> 02:10:59,559
I mean game-changing situations like

2580
02:11:08,250 --> 02:11:05,349
Roswell like NJ 12 and and the list is

2581
02:11:10,049 --> 02:11:08,260
long and he was he was out he was

2582
02:11:11,729 --> 02:11:10,059
speaking at all of the conventions he

2583
02:11:13,859 --> 02:11:11,739
was the one person everybody wanted to

2584
02:11:14,489 --> 02:11:13,869
talk to you everybody wanted his next

2585
02:11:16,890 --> 02:11:14,499
book

2586
02:11:20,310 --> 02:11:16,900
everybody wanted to know what documents

2587
02:11:25,370 --> 02:11:20,320
he had coming up next and he was the cat

2588
02:11:28,529 --> 02:11:25,380
at the center and at that point in 88 89

2589
02:11:33,600 --> 02:11:28,539
he was at the top it was him and Stanton

2590
02:11:35,100 --> 02:11:33,610
you you know Randall you know was part

2591
02:11:38,180 --> 02:11:35,110
that you know what I mean they're well

2592
02:11:40,290 --> 02:11:38,190
but but what kevin and i is kevin ran uh

2593
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:40,300
you know our first book didn't come out

2594
02:11:53,729 --> 02:11:47,010
until 91 and we both went through hell

2595
02:11:57,509 --> 02:11:53,739
mainly at you know at the hands of of

2596
02:12:00,569 --> 02:11:57,519
more and a few others just a constant

2597
02:12:02,549 --> 02:12:00,579
threats of lawsuits regarding our books

2598
02:12:06,149 --> 02:12:02,559
and that we were plagiarizing his work

2599
02:12:08,370 --> 02:12:06,159
and we were stealing his you know his

2600
02:12:10,379 --> 02:12:08,380
case that type of thing and well first

2601
02:12:13,080 --> 02:12:10,389
of all how do you copyright and historic

2602
02:12:17,520 --> 02:12:13,090
events and we were coming up with all of

2603
02:12:20,729 --> 02:12:17,530
our own witnesses and there was nothing

2604
02:12:23,189 --> 02:12:20,739
ever produced in our books that has ever

2605
02:12:25,739 --> 02:12:23,199
been challenged or claimed to have been

2606
02:12:29,669 --> 02:12:25,749
plagiarized i mean you know that's a

2607
02:12:32,850 --> 02:12:29,679
non-starter hmm but we were willing and

2608
02:12:35,399 --> 02:12:32,860
in fact as i as i described in working

2609
02:12:40,620 --> 02:12:35,409
with the Center for UFO studies and

2610
02:12:43,379 --> 02:12:40,630
being assigned to work with more and

2611
02:12:45,750 --> 02:12:43,389
shandur a as far as the documents Don we

2612
02:12:50,819 --> 02:12:45,760
need you to authenticate the documents

2613
02:12:53,250 --> 02:12:50,829
and even at that time I was in league

2614
02:12:56,580 --> 02:12:53,260
and I was the one at Koufos who was

2615
02:13:02,549 --> 02:12:56,590
briefing the late Paul Harvey at ABC

2616
02:13:04,680 --> 02:13:02,559
News in Chicago and Hynek did it on an

2617
02:13:08,069 --> 02:13:04,690
annual basis and after a Hynek passed

2618
02:13:11,450 --> 02:13:08,079
away in 86 I was the one selected by the

2619
02:13:15,450 --> 02:13:11,460
board of Q Post to then assume that role

2620
02:13:19,229 --> 02:13:15,460
so I'll never forget getting the phone

2621
02:13:21,359 --> 02:13:19,239
call and Don we have some documents we

2622
02:13:23,700 --> 02:13:21,369
haven't seen them but they sound like

2623
02:13:26,520 --> 02:13:23,710
they may be legitimate they sound like

2624
02:13:28,420 --> 02:13:26,530
they may blow the roof off of the entire

2625
02:13:32,100 --> 02:13:28,430
situation

2626
02:13:35,580 --> 02:13:32,110
and could you get them the Paul Harvey

2627
02:13:38,290 --> 02:13:35,590
and I was the one who arranged for

2628
02:13:41,230 --> 02:13:38,300
Elmore and Jamie Shannon array to meet

2629
02:13:46,780 --> 02:13:41,240
with Paul Harvey and he never spoke to

2630
02:13:49,270 --> 02:13:46,790
me again Paul Harvey yeah yeah because

2631
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:49,280
he was going to call security on them

2632
02:13:59,910 --> 02:13:54,010
because they went into areas that he was

2633
02:14:04,740 --> 02:13:59,920
especially upset offended when they

2634
02:14:08,020 --> 02:14:04,750
started talking about et you know

2635
02:14:11,350 --> 02:14:08,030
orchestration of organized religion and

2636
02:14:14,280 --> 02:14:11,360
Christianity and Jesus Christ was an

2637
02:14:18,960 --> 02:14:14,290
astronaut and that type of thing and

2638
02:14:22,300 --> 02:14:18,970
Paul Harvey was a very devout Kashiwa

2639
02:14:24,910 --> 02:14:22,310
Christian big friend Billy Graham late

2640
02:14:26,140 --> 02:14:24,920
Billy Graham right right right and so

2641
02:14:27,760 --> 02:14:26,150
and I had no idea

2642
02:14:30,760 --> 02:14:27,770
I had no idea and then when they did

2643
02:14:35,130 --> 02:14:30,770
that UFO cover lied that Mike Farrell of

2644
02:14:38,020 --> 02:14:35,140
mass Fame posted and they got into the

2645
02:14:43,410 --> 02:14:38,030
Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream

2646
02:14:46,570 --> 02:14:43,420
Hummer and we were seated here on earth

2647
02:14:50,080 --> 02:14:46,580
that was the first I had you know heard

2648
02:14:53,350 --> 02:14:50,090
of such things so it was like more

2649
02:14:57,760 --> 02:14:53,360
became almost a throwback to the contact

2650
02:15:02,620 --> 02:14:57,770
the element of the 50s that they felt as

2651
02:15:05,530 --> 02:15:02,630
they as the celebrity in them rose they

2652
02:15:09,460 --> 02:15:05,540
had to up the ante more and more to

2653
02:15:12,160 --> 02:15:09,470
remain relevant and that's why with the

2654
02:15:13,300 --> 02:15:12,170
contactees the Howard managers know

2655
02:15:16,390 --> 02:15:13,310
George Adamski

2656
02:15:18,600 --> 02:15:16,400
and the Daniel Frye's they kept coming

2657
02:15:21,100 --> 02:15:18,610
back with more and more glamorous

2658
02:15:25,210 --> 02:15:21,110
experiences with the Venetians and the

2659
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:25,220
Martians and so on and again more could

2660
02:15:31,060 --> 02:15:28,010
have had that with Roswell just with the

2661
02:15:34,390 --> 02:15:31,070
legitimacy of the case but there - it

2662
02:15:39,430 --> 02:15:34,400
was as though he felt the need to

2663
02:15:40,819 --> 02:15:39,440
glamorize it and produce documents and

2664
02:15:43,879 --> 02:15:40,829
information

2665
02:15:45,890 --> 02:15:43,889
it's not legitimate Don thank you so

2666
02:15:48,620 --> 02:15:45,900
much Paul thank you so much for

2667
02:15:51,649 --> 02:15:48,630
everything man and I could keep going

2668
02:15:55,879 --> 02:15:51,659
out for hours this is what I want to do

2669
02:15:58,010 --> 02:15:55,889
let's do this one month from today let's

2670
02:16:00,109 --> 02:15:58,020
continue this conversation but just

2671
02:16:02,240 --> 02:16:00,119
let's just do it again let's put you

2672
02:16:04,850 --> 02:16:02,250
into into heavy rotation are you down

2673
02:16:06,979 --> 02:16:04,860
fine that's what I love to a long talk I

2674
02:16:08,359 --> 02:16:06,989
mean you're a great dear friend and you

2675
02:16:10,189 --> 02:16:08,369
know I'm always gonna be there for you

2676
02:16:12,799 --> 02:16:10,199
so thank you so much man

2677
02:16:14,660 --> 02:16:12,809
and again everybody just head over to

2678
02:16:17,990 --> 02:16:14,670
Amazon the links are at Jimmy Church

2679
02:16:20,240 --> 02:16:18,000
radio.com not only UFO secrets inside

2680
02:16:22,399 --> 02:16:20,250
right Pat but all of the rest of Don and

2681
02:16:24,530 --> 02:16:22,409
Tom's books are right there thank you so

2682
02:16:26,990 --> 02:16:24,540
much enjoy the rest of your night thank

2683
02:16:29,149 --> 02:16:27,000
you so much you as well Jimmy talk to

2684
02:16:32,480 --> 02:16:29,159
you soon da minute Thank You Don

2685
02:16:35,509 --> 02:16:32,490
Don Schmidt and I I just went pole to

2686
02:16:38,389 --> 02:16:35,519
pole I've got a roll credits right now

2687
02:16:40,669 --> 02:16:38,399
Thank You Don stayed up late and the

2688
02:16:43,490 --> 02:16:40,679
last question I should have a dot Don

2689
02:16:45,530 --> 02:16:43,500
are you still there yes somebody wanted

2690
02:16:52,580 --> 02:16:45,540
to know if you were wearing a tie during

2691
02:16:54,500 --> 02:16:52,590
the conversation tonight it's an alien

2692
02:16:56,120 --> 02:16:54,510
it's an alien t-shirt it was given to me

2693
02:16:58,030 --> 02:16:56,130
it's got a crop circle on it

2694
02:17:03,910 --> 02:16:58,040
thank you so much son have a great night

2695
02:17:08,059 --> 02:17:06,230
datablocks executive producers ritika

2696
02:17:09,950 --> 02:17:08,069
Murray on shows produced by Hill J palm

2697
02:17:12,770 --> 02:17:09,960
Renee Dennis and Bob announces our Steve

2698
02:17:14,690 --> 02:17:12,780
R to Jean Patou mrdiko bar webmaster is

2699
02:17:17,169 --> 02:17:14,700
drew the geek music doug aldrich intro

2700
02:17:18,830 --> 02:17:17,179
space boys space boy music comm

2701
02:17:22,730 --> 02:17:18,840
beta-blockers produced by kjsurya

2702
02:17:24,740 --> 02:17:22,740
productions indication is kgr a the

2703
02:17:27,740 --> 02:17:24,750
planet thank you to don Schmidt Tom

2704
02:17:29,809 --> 02:17:27,750
Kerry too as well spark a stone and

2705
02:17:31,520 --> 02:17:29,819
copyright of 2019 by peda block in the

2706
02:17:33,679 --> 02:17:31,530
game changer Network it cannot be

2707
02:17:35,480 --> 02:17:33,689
rebroadcast download a copy there used

2708
02:17:37,429 --> 02:17:35,490
anywhere in the known universe without

2709
02:17:38,270 --> 02:17:37,439
written permission from fade to black of

2710
02:17:40,640 --> 02:17:38,280
the game change

2711
02:17:43,610 --> 02:17:40,650
at work our meals Jimmy Church follow me

2712
02:17:45,890 --> 02:17:43,620
on twitter @jj church radio until

2713
02:17:46,990 --> 02:17:45,900
tomorrow night I want everybody to be

2714
02:17:49,940 --> 02:17:47,000
safe

2715
02:17:56,590 --> 02:17:49,950
Gobekli Tepe